Help Me Design My Cooling System

[kitto]

Bigger oil capacity will help i think simmo.

[mungy]

Simon from what I've been told by an engineer having the radiator sitting in the boot will increase the temp of the coolant only to be compensated by the better air flow and resulting in the same temps you already have. The best place for that radiator is in the front however why not run a secondary radiator elsewhere? Maybe a smaller one surrounded by dry ice just for those hot days, Could mount it underneath your passenger headlight where the stock intercooler would normally sit. Could also look into v8 supercar water pump systems and run the pump separate from the engine increasing it's efficiency.

[Risking]

^^^^

There is only 1 Supercar team I know of that run an external water pump system and their cars are abortions.

Any Perkins built engine has a Perkins machined factory located water pump

KRE built engines use an off the shelf replacement

DJR use off the shelf

GRM use edelbrock

The list goes on.

A mate of mine is currently reassembling last years main game Kelly racing cars that were run for reindler and murphy. They have Perkins water pumps that are a super flash CNC'ed housing and as a let down have a factory 5L holden impeller inside them....

[mungy]

Guess what... Putting the radiator in the boot requires an external pump...?? And I'm not thinking of any small pump I'm thinking like a grundfos industrial pump.

Anyway instead of running an external water pump how about an external refrigeration system? Compressor/condenser and have the refrigerant cool the end tanks some how?

[R32GOJIRA]

Just a little input.

I had a custom radiator built for my R32 GTR.

Was a twin pass cross flow. PWR 2" dual core with custom alloy tanks.

Had non stop problems. Wouldnt keep the car cool and the core leaked twice in 3 months.

For me the alloy radiator wasnt any good.

Then had exactly the same radiator made up in brass and copper.

Now I cant get my car to overheat no matter what i do.

It seems to disperse the heat much more efficiently.

[mungy]

Gojira the issue isn't that it has problems and overheats it's that in a drift car your not going straight very often at all and have very little air flow at the front, there's just not enough air flowing through the radiator to keep it cool on really hot days

[Dale FZ1]

Be interesting to know if the core design is exactly the same ie. shape/type of turbulators (if any) and the fins/inch count between the PWR and the copper unit.

[R32GOJIRA]

Mungy, I understand that, i was only stating that a brass and copper radiator will help disperse the heat more efficiently than an alloy equivalent, in which case, may help in reducing coolant temps.

If your going to go through all the trouble of mounting the radiator in the floor pan of the boot and are worried about it lying down, why not have the radiator standing up and mount it where the sheet metal between the back seat and the boot should be? Seal it off, use the same ducting concept, and have it venting up out of the bootlid with another duct.

Dale, yes i had a look at the radiator cores before everything was done, they are both tube and fin, same shape turbulators, same core size, same tube and fin count/inch, same tank design. They are identical.

[discopotato03]

Done properly copper cores can be good but the old OE ones had the finns/gills "glued" to the flat sided tubes with solder and its high lead content makes solder a poor conductor . The eco Nazis hade lead and copper and just about priced them out of te mass market . Also by comparison ally core composite tank radiators are significantly lighter and more compact than the 70s era copper and brass radiators .

Core design . To each their own but I don't like multi pass radiators because they halve the flow path increasing resistance to flow . I also dislike multi row cores because where there is gaps between the rows of tubes there are no gills or cooling ability . In other words a significant increase in depth or thickness if you like for not that much of an increase in heat transfer . If you get the chance look in the top of a multitube core and note how deep the tubes aren't . It makes me wonder if it was a cost cutting exercise using commonly available tubes and finns .

I reckon the best OE style core I've seen is the Koyo R32 GTR one I used to use mainly because it has a single row of tubes that are quite deep , something like 20-25mm , meaning a lot of surface area for the finns - and a lot of finn area too .

Something else to possibly think about is engine tuning to see if you can find ways to get enough power / torque while minimising heat into the cooling systems .

Examples I've been told about is RBs being slightly short changed exhaust valve wise and playing around with exhaust cam timing can at times reduce coolant temps . Years ago I read about people ceramic coating chambers/exhaust valves/exhaust ports to keep the heat in the gas and out of the head and its cooling water .

Lastly rather than the RB 6 is it possible to get enough power out of an inline KA24DE+T , because if it is you get to use an OE engine option thats a lot shorter than an RB25 and possibly easier to cool with more conventional style cooling systems . I wouldn't mind betting someone in the US has tried drifting in a turbocharged S14 240SX and found any issues . Typically their aftermarket has just about everything you'd ever want for a KA24DE engine .

The longer stroke may actually help put the torque where you want it for a drifter , worth checking .

Something to read .

http://forums.nicoclub.com/drift-topic-ka24de-t-vs-sr20det-t516219.html

A .

Edited January 23, 2013 by discopotato03

[mungy]

Definatley correct about the ka being able to produce that kind of power and tourqe however we have 2 problems, we are not in the states and finding a ka engine would be hard let alone parts second problem is it a 4 cylinder, running that kind of power through it will make it utterly unreliable and will destroy itself much sooner than the rb costing an enormous amount of money more overall, if simon was going to swap engines to reduce temps it would be simpler and cheaper just to put a v8 in. The reason he is running the rb is because it suits his driving style and is cost effective.

[kitto]

He also dislikes V8s...

[mungy]

Yes I know he does, that's why an engine change will never happen, especially after the money spent fitting the new gearbox

[GTXR34]

how about a water spray setup for the radiator.. surely it would drop the temps a bit? maybe even using cold water?

just putting it out there... was planning to maybe doing this on mine.. im no engineer but it makes sense to me and i can't see any draw backs from it.. if it works for the intercooler why not for the radiator

cheers

[Simon-S14]

yeah it would work well... might still do it yet. the boot mounted rad idea is shaping up to be an expensive task.

might make a 20L water container for the boot that does both rad and intercooler and be done with it haha

[urtwhistle]

hahah with 20L you could run a sprinkler hahahahah

[Simon-S14]

you'd be surprised how quickly you can use it up. i have a 11L tank atm for just intercooler and it will drain tthat in just a few mins so i have to use it here and there in a session

[urtwhistle]

Really? wow I never thought you would chew through that much that quickly. I'm not really sure how big the jets or how many your running or the pressure that they are getting. From my experience with mining mixing equipment some times your better off getting a spray that will create a proper mist/fog rather than a big spray that will cause droplets. But to acheive it you would probly need a decent high pressure pump

[DJRIFT]

Have you every tried a twin pass radiator Simon?

There is a company that's isn't pwr that make very high quality ones that don't seem to give any problems.

Another issue that some people may be overlooking is cavitation caused by your high revs and low air speed due to sideways ect.

I've been told in the past that under drive pullys should be used on drift cars.

I personally hate electric water pumps because a they are always fitted to gay rotors and b they fail more often than work.

[MrRx7s3]

Man I got a wierd arse idea, how about you mould/mount a big arse radiator in the bonnet? shorter hoses than going all the way to the boot hence cooler water right into the engine, with 2 big arse fans or even 4? two on each side sucking outwards? just a thought dont rape me for it haha lol .

[Simon-S14]

sadly there would be no room for that..