Hsd Hr-Type Or Blitz Zz R Or Bc Racing - Coil Overs For R32 Gtr.. What You Think?

[ichi-go]

if a little bit of detective work is done, one may find that blitz and BC coilovers are made in the same factory, and that the low end Blitz and BC are exactly the same coilovers underneath.

That's what they keep telling you, when BC came out, they said it was made in the same factory that made greddy coilovers... yeah anyone with half a brain can buy a set of greddy coilovers, send it to their china factory, de-assemble everything and just replicate it

Why is MCA famous? Their shocks are from Penske but that is not the whole story, half of the hard work are the valving, quality of shock oil used etc etc

Dont get me wrong, you get what you pay for, i'm using a set of greddy coilovers that is a 1200 jobbies and i'm not expecting something spectacular with it

Reason i bought greddy and not some BC/D2 coilovers is because i know greddy actually developed the kit and tested it

Not just some traders that post on the forum and claim the same factory that made ohlins made their coilovers

And FYI for 1200 jobbies, you will find that they do not perform properly when you adjust the hardness if you put it on a shock dyno, the more adjustments they have, the worse the quality is...

My 2 cents

Edited June 25, 2013 by ichi-go

[darksky34]

That's what they keep telling you, when BC came out, they said it was made in the same factory that made greddy coilovers... yeah anyone with half a brain can buy a set of greddy coilovers, send it to their china factory, de-assemble everything and just replicate it

Why is MCA famous? Their shocks are from Penske but that is not the whole story, half of the hard work are the valving, quality of shock oil used etc etc

Dont get me wrong, you get what you pay for, i'm using a set of greddy coilovers that is a 1200 jobbies and i'm not expecting something spectacular with it

Reason i bought greddy and not some BC/D2 coilovers is because i know greddy actually developed the kit and tested it

Not just some traders that post on the forum and claim the same factory that made ohlins made their coilovers

And FYI for 1200 jobbies, you will find that they do not perform properly when you adjust the hardness if you put it on a shock dyno, the more adjustments they have, the worse the quality is...

My 2 cents

not sure if you were agreeing/disagreeing with me but i agree with most/all your points in the post

[GTRAAH]

Well I put the HSD HR coilovers in and not a problem so far.. On fully Soft and but I will make them harder by a few notches this weekend.. Funny you should say that I have spoken to a few different people with HSD's and they stand by them..

I will keep testing these and see how they go...

I have heard time and time again HSD's .. and people will buy them over and over. I spoke to a guy who has 3 sets in 3 of his cars... another that has had them 4 years still running in a drift car and he thrashes the thing!! and when they break he will buy them again. I also have a freind with them in and he has never had a problem. .. So I dont know why I am seeing different opinions in here. But I already heard enough good about the HSD's that I bought them without a hiccup. And 1 week in I am happy.

And to add to this

http://www.hsdcoilovers.com/

They even ave a 30 day money back guarantee on them.... So basically if you put them in your car you can go get it dyno plotted and if your not happy return them... For them to know this could happen and still offer means they are quite happy with there build and assume you will be also.

And if you look on that Europe site the ones that Otomoto sell are the MonoPRO.. which are the higher quality out of the 2 they have

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[GTRAAH]

And read this article from top to bottom -- http://evosoulselect.com/review/archives/336 I mean it is from an EVO perspective but we are still talking about the same company HSD.. Seems like he did a bit of homework aswell before he chose them.. my point being 95% of users rate the HSDs good.. which is why I went for them.

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[sweefu]

If only someone had shock dyno plots of them. BC sends you dyno plots don't they?

Just because they come from Japan doesn't mean they're awesome. They're <$1,200 for a reason.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so might update this post. But I've been trying to get HSD damper dyno results for a week, from HSD in the UK, here in Australia and from HSD Shocks in Korea who make the dampers, it's proving very difficult so far - no one wants to give any specific information about the valving used in the dampers and the damper dyno results. I'll post back with results if I can!

I rate HSD suspension for the money. I used the HSD HR in my previous car and found it to be 'good' - I used this car as my introduction to circuit racing and drifting (there were a few offs while drifting) and they held up well from a quality aspect. Although I felt that I could never dial in the dampers to suit my spring rates properly, hence why I am looking for some more specific information about the valving used and some data to back it up.

[djr81]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so might update this post. But I've been trying to get HSD damper dyno results for a week, from HSD in the UK, here in Australia and from HSD Shocks in Korea who make the dampers, it's proving very difficult so far - no one wants to give any specific information about the valving used in the dampers and the damper dyno results. I'll post back with results if I can!

I rate HSD suspension for the money. I used the HSD HR in my previous car and found it to be 'good' - I used this car as my introduction to circuit racing and drifting (there were a few offs while drifting) and they held up well from a quality aspect. Although I felt that I could never dial in the dampers to suit my spring rates properly, hence why I am looking for some more specific information about the valving used and some data to back it up.

It is actually pretty damn difficult to get dyno charts for cheap dampers. I havent even seen any for the Bilsteins that are so common on GTR's.

The problem for most people is - even if you could draw exactly what you wanted the damper curve to look like, could you? I know I couldn't.

[GTRAAH]

Driftworks UK another company that swear by HSD apparently gave a dyno plot for HSD HR for a civic this is the closest I have seen, so maybe ask these guys?

http://www.driftworks.com/images/HSD-HR-dyno.jpg

I looked at this and i really dont understand anything to be honest lool, But if they were willing to give out a plot and STILL offer a 30 day money back guarantee that says something

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[sweefu]

It is actually pretty damn difficult to get dyno charts for cheap dampers. I havent even seen any for the Bilsteins that are so common on GTR's.

The problem for most people is - even if you could draw exactly what you wanted the damper curve to look like, could you? I know I couldn't.

Very true, myself I would not know, but I have some engineering friends who enjoy picking at this sort of stuff so I was planning on getting them to help me.

I'm also interested about matching the right spring rate to the damper valving - I feel this can be a little off with some cheaper coilovers, they often will offer a variety of spring rate options - but which really suit the damper?

HSD in the UK have the info, but because I am from Australia they said I have to contact Otomoto, they were not at all helpful after I said I was from Australia.

[GTRAAH]

The problem with Dyno plots is they will vary so much and they have so many different type of coil overs and these all act differently for all cars because of the weight and height, camber etc... So I recon even if you do get a plot it may act differently if you get a plot done on your own car. But I guess a plot will give you a type of idea on how they work.. But I would not FULLY rely on it untill its in your own car and then you test it.

Speaking about HSD,, THey also have a HT type which is around $2500 in price and this is race specific...

Abit more info on the HT

"Featuring a remote reservoir for all four dampers, control is improved even under sustained, high-load use. Effectively doubling the volume of oil in each damper, the remote reservoir system also improves cooling and allows the HT dampers to have separate bump and rebound adjustment. There are four ‘coarse’ steps of bump adjustment, with 12 steps of finer adjustment effectively offering 48 steps of bump adjustment. Rebound adjustment also has 16 steps to choose from, with up to 5000N of damping force available., To minimize unsprung weight, the HT series also offers a full aluminium damper casing and aluminium lower bracket"

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[GTSBoy]

Shock dyno plots are not generated "on car". A shock dyno is a machine that you strap an individual damper onto, with no spring, and you subject it to either a known stroke rate and measure the force, or you subject it to a known force and you measure the displacement rate.

Shock dyno plots are therefore 100% indicative of the performance of the damper and completely independent of the car that it might get strapped to.

Those dodgy "suspension testers" that you see and [the suspension shop whose name I refuse to use] are not a shock dyno. They are a gullibility testing machine.

[niZmO_Man]

I assumed/imagined a suspension shop can mount an upright onto their dyno machine and then tune/get specs to rebuild the dampers to the springs.

[GTRAAH]

I have read dyno plots being tested for certain cars.. or maybe they were the type of shocks that were tested before they put it on the car because as above offcourse the company would have to test these after building them ..But couldnt there possbly be Different type of Dyno shock tests? I would assume you can set it up on your car and tune the specs, damper, camber, what ever possble? as Nizmo man said above... And this also shows same type of plot?

I just spoke to UK HSD and checked if they would give me a dyno plot i even acted like I was in the UK liverpool they said they dont supply them but they said you can use them and if you are not happy you can return them within 30 days thats how confident we are he says, I also asked for curiosty what famous cars or race teams have used HSD and his reply " We use HSD on our championship winning drift cars, Falken UK and Europe use HSD, Monster Energy Europe drift cars, most other European winning S-chassis drift cars use HSD.

Track wise we have VLN drivers on HSD, HSD themselves run winning teams in Korea, and over here we have good customers such as RB Motorsport, Abbey Motorsport etc..

We're well known for quality and supply to a lot of big name companies :)"

Anyways inregards to the Dyno plotting its easier then I thought then just buy a pair off HSD's Dyno plot them and then if your not happy return them for your money back, you dont even have to put them on a car .... . I have never heard of any other company that offer a money back guarantee. > Honestly that alone says a lot

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[GTRAAH]

ANd forgot to mention he also said keith cowrie or what ever his name was also used HSD a few years back.....

ANyways this thread is going beyond what i wanted so .. I am pretty much out guys.. thanks for your help and input

[sweefu]

All very good information here. I used HSD HR for two years with good results, but never felt the dampers were doing their job as well as they could. A friend of mine was using BC ER and these felt like they were better 'dialed in', felt more progressive and controlled.

Bit off topic here, sorry OP - has anyone used the HSD HT with the external reservoir? They don't seem to be very popular, although they seem to offer all the benefits of the HR series with bump and rebound adjustment, and almost twice the oil quantity so in theory should cope a little better on the track - any comments?

I've emailed the manufacturer in Korea but he seems reluctant to deal with me being in Australia - fair call I guess, that's what their distributors are for.

I'll update with who replies and any information I find.

[GTRAAH]

Funny you should Say that I heard as much bad comments on BC as I heard good 50/50.. But HSD much MUCH more good then bad.. And I think the dampers are doing exactly what they need to be doing as they are on full soft at the moment, and I think its abit too soft actually..and lets not forget there supposed to be a very stiff coilover.. so already I can tell the settings are working very well, the guy who put them in said when he was testing and setting it up for me.. that I will feel the differences easily.. So This weekend I will take it out for a good testing and I really want to stiffen it up abit more... I am thinking 5 clicks on the front and 3 on the rear

In regards to the HT... apparently only really used for the track it would be could to hear about them over 1k dearer so I would say they should be ok

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[sweefu]

I have heard bad things about BC (good and bad) but my experience has only been positive so far.. but I've only been in 1 car with BC, so my opinion is not exactly fair or objective.

I'm going a bit off topic here.. seeing as there are some people with similar interest, I might start a thread with all the information on >$2000 coilovers I have collected so far, and start a discussion there. I'm buying mine for an S14, but in relation to the suspension itself, all opinions are relevant.

Cheers.

[ichi-go]

If you are willing to spend $2500 on a coilovers, i would look into more established brand and well known such as KW clubsport range, i think they are about 2.5k-3k depending on where you source them, sure they dont have external reservoir but do you even need/know how to use/tune them?

And dont make your decision because x drifter use them, they are sponsored by them, they are more than happy to use oem suspension if nissan sponsored them, the point is, it does not truly represent how good/well a suspension is

[GTRAAH]

LOL I made my decision before I new any of that....I have spoken to people who have used them for years, as I said I also found out that my freind had them in his car and his more then happy. Anyway This thread has done its duty .. CHeers!

Edited July 4, 2013 by GTRAAH

[sweefu]

If you are willing to spend $2500 on a coilovers, i would look into more established brand and well known such as KW clubsport range, i think they are about 2.5k-3k depending on where you source them, sure they dont have external reservoir but do you even need/know how to use/tune them?

And dont make your decision because x drifter use them, they are sponsored by them, they are more than happy to use oem suspension if nissan sponsored them, the point is, it does not truly represent how good/well a suspension is

Woop, meant to say <$2000 coilovers, realistically I'd like to have it all done for less than that.

I haven't looked much into KW coilovers (thought they were out of my budget) but will research some more.

I don't mind at all about external reserviour, chances are I would never notice the difference, but having adjustable bound and rebound would be good, I think I could dial this in over time and make use of it.

I won't make my decision because someone uses them (for reference, i used HSD HR on track and street for 2 years). I'm just making sure I find every option available in my budget and considering it carefully

I'll make a thread later on today I think.

Cheers.

[djr81]

I downloaded these from a for sale thread ages ago - simply because they were the only dyno charts I had seen on GTR dampers. They are for the yellow Bilsteins off an R33. Anyway apologies to whomever the vendor was - hope they sold them...

On another tack someone needs to bring up the fixation people have on adjustable dampers. The problems with them are plentiful, other than for the high end stuff where the problem is simply that they are ruinously expensive. Not only is there nothing wrong with fixed dampers they are superior in most ways.