Timing Issue

[sean133]

hey guys got a timing issue after a bit of help constructive criticism welcome

So recently just did water pump so I did a new timing belt at the same time as well as spark plugs

Got the timing light on I and its 30 degrees advanced but before that I drove it up the street and it spools like crazy and goes nowhere, obviously it's running retarded as hell, cas at full retarded gives me 25 degrees advanced so something is clearly wrong

By the way I've done timing belts before......

So took it all off to re check, and re did the belt incase i missed something,

All lines up properly on the crank pulley, and intake and exhaust cam marks all line up

Started it up again , sent photos of the timing belt marks to a mechanic who said all good

Sounds like a wrx and timing light says like 50 degrees advanced

......anyone got any ideas?

Also pulled the plug out and realised I got supplied rb25 plugs not rb20 so ill get rb20 sparkles in ASAP.

Got a spare cas ill try,

Obviously when cars under load the ecu is reading it knocking so its retarded the timing to keep it safe so I've got no power

But I should be able to get base timing right..?

Gonna check ecu codes ASAP too

Any ideas are appreciated

[Ben C34]

Are you using the loop? That can give false readings.

Also disconnect tps when setting timing.

I assume it was alright before doing the belt?

[sean133]

Yeah using the loop, been reading up on how to do it with the coil pack but not really sure what to do

Didn't know about disconnecting tps, how come?

Also idle is set to 750rpm won't go lower

Yeah was alright before the belt change

[Ben C34]

The loop socks for some reason.

To use coil pack just plug a lead onto it to the plug (from a different car) and click pickup onto it

Have heard guys just open pickup and put it on the top of coil pack.

When the tps is disconnected it goes to base idle, otherwise the ecu adjusts timing to maintain steady idle.

[Ben C34]

[Ben C34]

^^just general good advice!

[sean133]

Sorry I didn't understand the coil pack thing at all haha

Oh ok good idea ill do that with the tps

but I've still got a problem of running wrong as if its gone full retard haha

[Ben C34]

Disconnect the coil pack from the spark plug. Use a spark plug lead from another car to connect it to the plug.

Connect timing light to the lead.

A regular lead off a car with a distributor or an ls v8 will work.

[89CAL]

O.K to elaborate on the above, Plug the lead on the spark plug as you normally would with a plug lead. Now in the other end that would normally go on the coil/dizzy, put an appropriate size bolt in the coilpack and plug the lead into this (I put the head of the bolt in the coilpack)

Now I think you have to unplug the TPS or AAC to get it to sit on base idle so the timing remains constant. I cant remember this part yet but a google search should be able to find the answer (or search on here)

[sean133]

Sorry for being a retard but how do you put a bolt in the end of a coil pack

[sean133]

Spare cas didn't do anything, belt hasn't slipped either it's aligned perfectly

[HR32GTS 4DOOR]

do you still have the key on the inside of the exhaust cam? there can snap off and will let the cas go back on in any position.

[sean133]

Yeah mate

Also spark plugs are all burnt very white

Bit of extra info not sure if helps anything

[blind_elk]

Matt, if the key is broken, the CAS can go back in any position, but there is only one position where the engine will even start.

Idle is basically controlled with fuel. Variations in timing at idle are likely caused by the map being moved to a different load/rpm cell. Timing doesn't vary by more than 1 degree at idle, in my experience.

Callan, WTF? You don't need bolts shoved up coil packs. You peel back the small rubber cap on the "dizzy" end of the plug lead (maybe even cut it off) and the lead becomes the spark plug for the coil. The other end of the lead slips onto the spark plug (as it would in a "dizzied" application). Then connect the timing light to the spark plug lead (note the pickup is directional).

[HR32GTS 4DOOR]

  On 31/03/2014 at 9:35 PM, blind_elk said:

Matt, if the key is broken, the CAS can go back in any position, but there is only one position where the engine will even start.

Idle is basically controlled with fuel. Variations in timing at idle are likely caused by the map being moved to a different load/rpm cell. Timing doesn't vary by more than 1 degree at idle, in my experience.

Not entirely true, I have seen cars with the CAS out by 1 tooth or so and they still start (obviously don't run well but still idled fine)

Also I have seen (My car) range between 0 and 15 degrees timing at idle. Caused when the base idle is set way too high and the ecu pulls timing to bring it down.

[Ben C34]

My car (s2 stagea) definitely alters timing to maintain idle.

When tps is disconnected it runs 15.

[89CAL]

  On 31/03/2014 at 9:35 PM, blind_elk said:

Callan, WTF? You don't need bolts shoved up coil packs. You peel back the small rubber cap on the "dizzy" end of the plug lead (maybe even cut it off) and the lead becomes the spark plug for the coil. The other end of the lead slips onto the spark plug (as it would in a "dizzied" application). Then connect the timing light to the spark plug lead (note the pickup is directional).

Its how I've always done it. 8mm bolt, head fits perfect in the boot and lead fits perfectly over the shank of the bolt.

Nothing has been wrecked and it always works. I don't see what the big issue is

obviously you dont use a 20mm bolt to do this, I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses a small bolt, after all I had to get the idea from somewhere

[sean133]

Interesting

I'll disconnect tps then

My idle is 750rpm not sure if I mentioned

I'm still lost though!

[89CAL]

  On 31/03/2014 at 10:17 PM, superben said:

My car (s2 stagea) definitely alters timing to maintain idle.

When tps is disconnected it runs 15.

Yeah my engine manual says you need to disconnect the 'throttle sensor connection' so need to unplug the TPS

I think I had the timing jumping around within a few degrees of 15 when I did this for the first time with either my stock ECU or Power FC. Didnt have the TPS unplugged

OP you can either put the idle down to 650rpm (Which I think is too low) or try it with the TPS unplugged at 750rpm. I dont recall ever having to many issues. AFAIK Disconnecting the TPS tricks the computer into thinking it shouldnt be in the idle map so it goes to default map. It's harder without a scan tool or something plugged into the car to confirm it is at the timing you want. But if you check the timing with a plug lead and timing light, with the TPS disconnected and its pretty steady, I'd say you will be fine.

Try it with the TPS plugged in as well for comparison if you want. FYI I think you have to unplug or plug in the TPS before starting the car. So need to turn off the car, unplug, start car, check timing. Not 100% sure but think there was something like that

Edited March 31, 2014 by 89CAL

[Ben C34]

And they don't vary fuel to maintain idle, it runs stoichiometric closed loop.

The acc along with timing is used to control idle