Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hey all,

over the weekend i did a major service on my r33 rb25det, changed the water pump and put a Gates high performance timing belt kit (yes i changed the idler and tensioner etc)

Now when my car gets hot it makes a slight whirring sound..

i have read many topics which say the belt is too tight, others say that the Gates performance belts make this noise because they are a hard composite material..

What are other peoples suggestions? Does anyone have this timing belt kit (blue belt) and have no noise?


If so, can i adjust the idler without taking the bloody balancer off again?


Cheers

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/444746-gates-timing-belt-whirring-noise/
Share on other sites

My gates belt is fine. And have to agree I wouldnt try and do it without pulling the covers off properly.

I tried to do something with the bottom cover after I'd put my balancer on and it just wouldnt happen. Luckily for me it was only something minor and cosmetic so I just got over it, but yeah its not really possible to pull it off on an engine stand let alone in the car.

Yes this topic has been discussed countless times and it's always the same reply, incorrect tension.

Set the tension correctly and your belt will run as silently as a stock belt.

Set it too tight and once the engine's hot, the belt is over tensioned.

That's the idler bearing you can hear complaining, noise will reduce once the bearing tolerances increase.

I saw this mod on the GTROC forum.

Would still be a finicky operation and totally unnecessary if the owner had used a Nissan belt.

post-73571-0-06277300-1403469542_thumb.jpg

Mine has always made that noise with the old Nissan belt then with the new belt, a mechanic friend dripped some water over the belt while it was running and it went silent so Ive

been bit confused about where the noise comes from.

How can you know if you have the right tension, is there a special tool for measuring it?

Edited by AngryRB

The Gates belts are Kevlar, which won't stretch much, if at all. As the block expands with heat it needs to either stretch a little or be run a little slack when cold. I would prefer to just run the Nissan belt.

  • Like 1

to give the SAU mechanics a bit more info to go on id recommend you get your phone and make a video of

1: the noise (which can help determine if it is the belt or the idler).

2: take off the cam cover and video yourself manually twisting the belt by hand to show us how much tension is on it.

Bottom line is that noises from cam belts are common and most likely nothing to worry about. But if indeed it is too tight, then you need to worry about it...

Some posters are missing the point.

If the belt runs silently when the engine's cold, then becomes noisy once at operating temp., something's wrong…...

Too tight.

What astounds me is that after years of discussion about noisy belts, growling idler bearings etc, a topic like this is still posted.

It's old news. Just do the job right.

Some posters are missing the point.

If the belt runs silently when the engine's cold, then becomes noisy once at operating temp., something's wrong…...

Too tight.

What astounds me is that after years of discussion about noisy belts, growling idler bearings etc, a topic like this is still posted.

It's old news. Just do the job right.

maybe, maybe not. This has always been the fact with the timing belt noises. You cant say for certain without a bit of testing that it is or isn't a problem. i.e. that it is or isn't just belt noise or noise from incorrect tension.

Had my Gates racing belt put on 10,000km ago. Still whines slightly when warm. Belt was put on by a very well known garage in Sydney (lots of love for the workshop here on SAU too)

Had many knowledgable mechanics say they are slightly noisier than normal belts (and trust them over joe blo in the interwebs)

Unsure if the Joe Blow reference was directed at me, couldn't really care but I will offer some insight for those interested.

I've experimented with belt tension a fair bit, a lot more I'd hazard than any workshop where the obvious criteria is to get the vehicle serviced and out.

I fitted up belts and ran the vehicle at operating temp with NO bottom belt cover. Continually did tension checks as well as monitoring the harmonics these strange 4-pulley systems generate.

Can honestly say I've only read of one other owner who has also gone to this much effort and it is a lot of work.

But I'm 64, retired and have time on my hands for such investigations.

Yes I got Gates belts to run silently, but as I said ages back, they're simply not worth all the hassle. Unless one is doing this work on a daily basis, you will forget the exact tension required. Job then has to be done twice.

Yes a brand new idler will groan if belt tension is too tight. Slacken the belt slightly and the noise disappears.

This is idler noise, not tensioner which I've never had make a noise as it's on the slack side of the belt.

If a tensioner groans, you're so far over tensioned it's ready to snap the idler stud.

All these noises are so easy to pin point with the covers removed, no guesswork at all.

  • Like 2

Unsure if the Joe Blow reference was directed at me, couldn't really care but I will offer some insight for those interested.

I've experimented with belt tension a fair bit, a lot more I'd hazard than any workshop where the obvious criteria is to get the vehicle serviced and out.

I fitted up belts and ran the vehicle at operating temp with NO bottom belt cover. Continually did tension checks as well as monitoring the harmonics these strange 4-pulley systems generate.

Can honestly say I've only read of one other owner who has also gone to this much effort and it is a lot of work.

But I'm 64, retired and have time on my hands for such investigations.

Yes I got Gates belts to run silently, but as I said ages back, they're simply not worth all the hassle. Unless one is doing this work on a daily basis, you will forget the exact tension required. Job then has to be done twice.

Yes a brand new idler will groan if belt tension is too tight. Slacken the belt slightly and the noise disappears.

This is idler noise, not tensioner which I've never had make a noise as it's on the slack side of the belt.

If a tensioner groans, you're so far over tensioned it's ready to snap the idler stud.

All these noises are so easy to pin point with the covers removed, no guesswork at all.

Wasn't directed at you at all. Just meant it in a non dscriptive sense.

  • 3 weeks later...

I've experimented with belt tension a fair bit, a lot more I'd hazard than any workshop where the obvious criteria is to get the vehicle serviced and out.

With all due respect Sir there are many workshops that will only use gates belts that whine their whole life and they stand by their products and services and have had no failures in drag, track, and street cars hundreds upon hundreds of times over. And furthermore would be more than happy to rebuild an engine if they did. Just saying that not all of them have the criteria you suggest. Reputation has a lot to do with it. Edited by XGTRX

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • The average previous owner for these cars were basically S-chassis owners in the US. Teenagers or teenager-adjacent. I often tell people that neglect is easier to fix than something that was actively "repaired" by previous owners.
    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
×
×
  • Create New...