Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

hey guys I got a rb30 patrol with fuel injection im wondering what mods are required to get it to 180rwkw

the turbo I was going to use was going to be a t04e

will I need to lower my compression

also if I want lower compression can I just put in turbo pistons or do I need to change rods also

thanks guys

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/
Share on other sites

Steve200b, have you got a dyno sheet to prove that?

I find it very hard to believe 160atwkw on 35's and a GQ drive line, and through a VL/r31 afm?

My GQ with a RB30DET @15psi just made 185atwkw on 33's and 4.88:1 diffs, pfc, 400cc inj and z32.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405026
Share on other sites

hey guys I got a rb30 patrol with fuel injection im wondering what mods are required to get it to 180rwkw

the turbo I was going to use was going to be a t04e

will I need to lower my compression

also if I want lower compression can I just put in turbo pistons or do I need to change rods also

thanks guys

this isnt the 90's any more

just to clarify, t04e's are junk, and you dont need to lower your compression or open your engine to turbo an RB30e

best way to do it would be to wire in a cheap ecu like an adaptronic or something, hang a highflow hypergear off the side with all the supporting systems and then a decent tune

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405316
Share on other sites

Would you care to share the physical basis behind that claim? Where does the power go?

Well think of it like this, take out the small drive shaft, the r200 diff center, the little irs axles.

Put in a truck tail shaft @ twice the wieght, fit a 10.5" size diff center, fit axles twice the size and tires that each wiegh more than 2 of your original tire/rim combos together and tell me that wont sap hp?

Its very basic physics, E=mc2.

sounds stupid but its the more mass you try to accelerate, the energy required increases massively!

the next one is newtons laws of motion, every body acted upon by a force has a equal and opposite force acted back upon it, so the requirement to accelerate it is more so the heavier the object.

So this is where hp goes, through frictional loss, witch is a combination of windage, physical wieght, drag- from both wieght, size of components and material density.

It goes on and on the deeper you look into it!

The lhc in Europe uses maga watts of magnetic power to accelerate bits of particles to near light speed, if mass was easy to accelerate, theyd be sending house bricks around the tube wouldn't they?!!!!!

Edited by nicksamaniac
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405451
Share on other sites

Well think of it like this, take out the small drive shaft, the r200 diff center, the little irs axles.

Put in a truck tail shaft @ twice the wieght, fit a 10.5" size diff center, fit axles twice the size and tires that each wiegh more than 2 of your original tire/rim combos together and tell me that wont sap hp?

Its very basic physics, E=mc2.

sounds stupid but its the more mass you try to accelerate, the energy required increases massively!

the next one is newtons laws of motion, every body acted upon by a force has a equal and opposite force acted back upon it, so the requirement to accelerate it is more so the heavier the object.

So this is where hp goes, through frictional loss, witch is a combination of windage, physical wieght, drag- from both wieght, size of components and material density.

It goes on and on the deeper you look into it!

The lhc in Europe uses maga watts of magnetic power to accelerate bits of particles to near light speed, if mass was easy to accelerate, theyd be sending house bricks around the tube wouldn't they?!!!!!

Not true at all. Well, except perhaps the LHC bit.

There is SOME inertial effect from having heavier tailshaft, heavier gears, heavier axles etc. But it is very important to realise, especially with respect to the tailshaft and the axles, that the polar moment of inertia of those items is pretty bloody small, given that most of the mass is very close to the axis of rotation. Wheels, sure, they have a much higher polar moment of inertia, so making them larger and heavier will certainly increase their inertial effect on acceleration.

BUT, and this is a really big BUT, power output can be measured at a steady state. Acceleration only plays a part if you're running a ramp. So, if you were to take your engine, put it on an engine dyno and get the true power output of the engine, then install it into a car with skinny tailshaft etc and run it up to peak power and hold it there for say, 5 seconds, you should get almost exactly the same power reading as if you did the same thing with a bigger tailshaft, axles, etc.

You cannot argue against that. It is the absolute truth.

The single largest difference in power readings between engine dyno and chassis dyno in the power lost at the interface between the tyres and the rollers. Ignore hub dynos for the moment, because they throw a spanner in the works. We'll come back to them later.. Think about it. You have a 500HP engine in a car on a chassis dyno. You expect to lose 25-30% of that power when measuring it at the wheels, right? Where does that power go? I will tell you, it is most certainly not lost in the drivetrain. Some of it is, for sure. But if you think you can lose 125HP into the oil of the gearbox and the diff without that oil boiling in just a few seconds then you are severely mistaken. Furthermore, the amount of power lost through the drivetrain is probably not even a constant fraction anyway. There is almost certainly a minimum amount lost whenever the drivetrain is turning at speed, regardless of load, and there is probably a rapidly diminishing increase with load. This means that it starts at a non-zero number and increases with load but with the amount lost as load increases becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the additional load.

Have you ever watched a seriously powerful car on a dyno pull? Ever noticed how much smoke and rubber dust is generated at the rollers? Ever wondered why you get higher readings if you strap the car down harder? It's because there is slip between the tyre and the roller. You lose a LOT of energy there. And the tyre and the roller are spinning around at very high speed in the air so they at least have some convective mechanism to shed that heat. The gearbox and the diff housing have almost no air flowing over them at all and so have almost no convective cooling. So if the 500Hp engine loses 125HP + on a chassis dyno, then I would say that more than 80% of that loss is at the rollers and only maybe 20% is in the drivetrain. So if you then beef up any part of the drivetrain so that it chews up more power, let's say you make it chew up 50% more than it used to - you are only increasing the measured loss at the treads from 125 HP to 137HP. Or, looking at the real drivetrain loss on its own, from 25 to 37 HP. Either way, it's not as damaging as you might have thought. But here's the best thing. Thicker tailshafts and axles and so on don't even have that effect. They don't lose any more power. They simply don't. They will certainly take a little off the acceleration because of added inertia, but as I explained above, that effect will be small.

The big wheels will certainly dull acceleration.....but again, they don't actually "lose" power. Measured at steady state (and ignoring compound/grip differences in whatever tyres you may have on different sized wheels) the power should be very close to the same.

Edited by GTSBoy
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405511
Share on other sites

Good argument, I still disagree with some of what youve said, most power runs I see have a ramp rate at witch power is measuered, nobody does a static power measurement at full rpm, full hp and full torque for 5 seconds!

Thats just stupid.

inertial wieght is ONLY low nearer the center of the shaft as it approaches zero rpm at the center even if surface speed is 100's of meter sec.

The only way id believe component size and wieght make no difference to hp output is at a static speed, but thats when load drops, torque becomes static and power drops off to a point where its only maintaining vehicle speed.

In any other scenario wieght WILL be a loss on the system.

If you take that 500hp engine and match it to a standard Nissan FS5R30A 5sp box, on the output in 4th (1:1) it makes, say? 490hp (for argument sake)

Now take that same engine, match it to a 15speed road-ranger transmission and same 1:1ish ratio, how much does it make now?

It can ONLY make the same at a static speed, BUT more torque will be required, more load will be applied and more hp will be needed to maintain the same static speed.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405571
Share on other sites

And as a real world example, I took my patrol in stock trim for a power run so I had a starting point before all my engine mods.

It made a massive 75.3hp at the wheels on 28" tires, witch are like little chees cutter wheels.

the dyno operator said it was an expected result for the car type and showed me results from VL and r31 runs.

(same engine on a different drive line)

All of these figures where over 90hp, so how does a no loss idea explain a loss of 15hp?

And he also said it'll be lower due to, you guessed it, a bigger drive train!

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405577
Share on other sites

Yes they are, I can also confirm how crap they are, all companies make shitty choices, that is one Nissan made! Take a good solid engine and put a stone age fuel delivery system and ignition on it!

but mine was running efi.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405594
Share on other sites

most power runs I see have a ramp rate at witch power is measuered, nobody does a static power measurement at full rpm, full hp and full torque for 5 seconds!

Yes, well. That's the difference between real power and measured power now, isn't it? Just because the dyno induces an error (ie, because of including inertial effects), doesn't mean that any power is actually lost in its journey from one end of a tailshaft to the other.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/449359-rb30-patrol/#findComment-7405624
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • You just need to remove the compressor housing, not the entire turbo. I would not be drilling and tapping anything with the housing still on anyways. 
    • So, I put my boat on a boat. First of all, I'm going to come out and say it. Why is Tasmania not considered a holy goal, an apex that all road-legal modified cars go to, to experience? This place is an absolute wonderland of titanic proportions. If people are already getting club runs for once in a lifetime 30 person cruises to Tassy then I've never seemed to see it. It is like someone replaced the entire place with an idyllic wonderland for cars, and all of the people living there with paid actors who are kind, humble, and friendly. Dear god. After doing a lap of almost all of the place I've found that it's a great way to find out all of the little things that the car isn't doing quite right and a great way to figure it all out. All in all, I drove for 4 hours a day for a week and nothing broke. I didn't even need to open the engine bay. This is by all means a great success, but it has left me with a list of things to potentially address. I also now have a 3D printed wheel fitment tool which annoyingly hasn't got any threads in it to actually assemble it. I might be able to tape it together to check the sizing I actually want to use, but it'll likely involving pulling the shocks out to properly measure travel at least at the front, and probably raise the car while I'm at it, at least in the rear. I scraped on quite a few things and I'm not sure how else to go about it. I was taking anything with a bump at what felt like 89 degree angles. And address those 10 other tasks. And wash the car. God damn it is dirty. And somehow, the weather was perfect the entire time - And because I was on the top of Mt Wellington it turns out it was very much about to freeze up there. I did something I typically never do and took some photos up there in what must have been -10 and the foggy felt like suspended ice, rather than mere fog. If you own a car in Australia, you owe it to yourself to do it.
    • Damn that was hilarious, and a bit embarrassing for skylines in general 😂 vintage car life ey. That R33 really stomped. Pretty entertaining stuff
    • Hi, I have a r32 gtr transmission. Does any of you guys have an idea how much power it will hold with the billet center plate and stock gearset? At what power level and use did yours brake with or without billet plate? Thanks, Oystein Lovik
    • Saw this replica police car based on a Mitsubishi Starion XX parked next to a 'police box' (it's literally a box) in Hirohata, Himeji City in Hyogo prefecture the other day. It's owned by Morii-san who is a local Mitsubishi Starion enthusiast. According to a local radio station blog post, he always wanted to make a police car himself based on ones he saw in his favourite Manga comics.  As it's illegal to modify a car to look like a police car and drive on the road, Morii-san tried many times to get permission from Aboshi police station headquarters nearby. They refused initially by after they got tired of that they granted him permission. However, the car can only be displayed on private property and obviously can't be registered as long as the police livery is present. The car was completed at a cost of 1.5 million yen (US$ 10,000) in addition to the car cost. A location was chosen outside Hirohata Police box where the car can easily been seen from the street. Morii-san has two other Starion road cars, both widebody GSR-VRs.
×
×
  • Create New...