450-500HP turbo, Internal or External Gate?

[Sydneykid]

On a negative note, the HPI R34GTT only made 230rwkw with the GCG turbo.

That's right Robo, but if you check the specs, you will find it was running the standard dump, the standard airbox and the compliance cat. Plus it was wheelspinning a little on the dyno, which BTW had not yet been upgraded to run in Shoot Out mode. In addition, I don't know about Lepperfishes car, ours has an electric cooling fan instead of the engine driven one.

All in all, I am pretty happy that the results are comparable with a few others of the same spec. :aroused:

Sorry I don't know anything about the GCG "spec in between 450 and 500 bhp". Next time I am in there I will ask though.

Sorry gotta go, Skyline shocks to be engineered.

[Guest Robo's]

That's right Robo, but if you check the specs, you will find it was running the standard dump, the standard airbox and the compliance cat.  Plus it was wheelspinning a little on the dyno, which BTW had not yet been upgraded to run  in Shoot Out mode.  In addition, I don't know about Lepperfishes car, ours has an electric cooling fan instead of the engine driven one.

All in all, I am pretty happy that the results are comparable with a few others of the same spec. :aroused:

 

Sorry I don't know anything about the GCG "spec in between 450 and 500 bhp".  Next time I am in there I will ask though.

Sorry gotta go, Skyline shocks to be engineered.

Well that explains for the relative low figure. In the article they said they were running out of injectors and couldnt run higher boost.

Well i dont know why HPI would bolt on an upgrade turbo and leave the standard dump and cat. A bit backwards!!!

[Sydneykid]

Well that explains for the relative low figure.  In the article they said they were running out of injectors and couldnt run higher boost.

Well i dont know why HPI would bolt on an upgrade turbo and leave the standard dump and cat.  A bit backwards!!!

As far as I know Ben intended to go to an externally wastegated turbo in the progression plan (which he did). So he avoided buying/doing anything that was going to be redundant, I guess the dump and cat fell into that catagory.

They did pretty well to get to 230 rwkw with the standard injectors, I have never been able to get much over 210 rwkw.

[Abo Bob]

Aren't the R34 injectors smaller than the R33 ones? I am all but convinced to go the 450 GCG turbo with upgraded pump and regulator. Hoping to have a comfy 200rwkw

[Sydneykid]

Aren't the R34 injectors smaller than the R33 ones?  I am all but convinced to go the 450 GCG turbo with upgraded pump and regulator.  Hoping to have a comfy 200rwkw

Smaller in size, but not smaller in rate

[SLY33]

lepperfish, can you verify TWENTY PSI by 3,400rpm!?!?!

im not saying your car doesnt hit it by 3400 (must have some wicked tuning or something), but i have to say i find it hard to believe!!

i have a smaller HKS 2530 which should be hitting full boost earlier than the high flow and at 3400rpm im guessing i see maybe 14psi? mine hits full boost (~19psi max) by a tad under 4000rpm!

[bigcarl]

dyno sheets? lepperfish? sydneykid? what fuel were you using?

[Sydneykid]

Are You Running Lower Compression To Acheive The 20psi Boost ? Im Running St.1 Gcg 450hp Hi Flow Turbo , 600hp Bosche Motorsport Fuel Pump, Malpassi Rising Rate Reg, Ces Racing Split 3inch Dump Pipe, 3 Inch Cat, Exhaust, Link Ecu , Gtr Intercooler And At 17.5psi Boost My Car Could Only Manage 212rwkws On Shootout Mode , My Tuner Advised Me That I Needed An Aftermarket Manifold To Achieve More Boost And Therefore More Power , He Reckons This Will Give Me Another 15 To 20 Rwkws!!! So At 230rwkws Im Going To Be Still Along Way From 265rwkws Lepperfish What A Freak/ Animal Of A Car Youve Got Mate!!

Hi Big Carl, I wouldn't worry about the manifold, inlet or exhaust, as you are nowhere near the limit of either. There are other things that will give you more.

What I have done to our engine that you haven't done yet;

1. We run 19.5 psi (~8rwkw)

2. We run R33 GTR intercooler, is yours R32 GTR? (~5rwkw)

3. The head is ported, the combustion chambers are polished and the manifolds are carefully matched (~10rwkw)

4. The big one, a set of Tomei 260 degree poncams is fitted (~20rwkw)

5. Lastly we have done an injector upgrade and changed to a Z32 AFM (~0rwkw). No extra power in themselves but probably worth a bit in tuning resolution with the Power FC.

Total 255 rwkw, that's close enough to allow for dyno, tuning and ambient differences.

Fuel, the initial tuning was done on the Shell Optimax control fuel as used by our V8Supercar at the time. It has had a couple of runs since, all pretty much the same on pump Optimax. I have run it on Elf LMS a couple of times, as it was left over from the R32 GTST, makes a bit more on Elf as I can advance the igntion timing a lot.

Hope that is of some help

[rb20-calais]

This is wierd,

with an RB20 I get 17-18psi with the HKS 2530 before 4000rpm, I am pretty sure that it had 15psi @ 3500rpm ... definately had 17psi before 4000rpm, more like 3700rpm or earlier, wierd that you have the same response if not worse with an RB25 with the higher CR and capacity.

Anyone got ideas?

Evan

lepperfish, can you verify TWENTY PSI by 3,400rpm!?!?!

im not saying your car doesnt hit it by 3400 (must have some wicked tuning or something), but i have to say i find it hard to believe!!

i have a smaller HKS 2530 which should be hitting full boost earlier than the high flow and at 3400rpm im guessing i see maybe 14psi? mine hits full boost (~19psi max) by a tad under 4000rpm!

[Cubes]

For a HKS2530 and 1.2bar on a RB20 you are pretty spot on, they do make that boost by 3700-4000rpm.

Is that from a low speed accelerating in second gear?

Every one has a different idea of how and where their car makes its 'full boost'

I.e my stocker RB20t with exhaust and fmic running 1.1bar accelerating from a low speed in second gear on a flat road will see 1.1bar by around 3500rpm.

Try that in third or fourth and it will see 1.1bar by 3000rpm.

All depends on gearing.

Yours being a Calais I would imagine you are still running the stock 3.45:1 diff ratio. The R32's run a 4.363:1 and the R33's a 4.11:1.

First gear at 7000rpm in the R32 is some where around 55km/h, second is around 95km/h and third is around 140km/h.

[Sydneykid]

For a HKS2530 and 1.2bar on a RB20 you are pretty spot on, they do make that boost by 3700-4000rpm.

 

Is that from a low speed accelerating in second gear?

 

Every one has a different idea of how and where their car makes its 'full boost'

 

I.e my stocker RB20t with exhaust and fmic running 1.1bar accelerating from a low speed in second gear on a flat road will see 1.1bar by around 3500rpm.

 

Try that in third or fourth and it will see 1.1bar by 3000rpm.

Spot on Joel, add going up a long, steep hill on a cool evening to that and you have another set of variables. This is why I always insist on running all the cars on the dyno in 4th gear. That way I get comparable results.

[rb20-calais]

Yeh the results were in 4th gear on a DD, for reference I run a 4.11 minispool. Also the standard exaust manifold I have has been ported which may make a difference? It is very hard for me to cruise off boost even very partial throttle produces boost in all gears, I have to say the HKS 2530 is a perfect match to the RB20.

Evan

[Cubes]

That explains it.

I've seen exactly 1.2bar @ 3750rpm with a 2530 in fourth gear on a DD Dyno.

[Sydneykid]

Regency (Transport SA) has final say. Engineers reports, ADR tests anything means nothing to them here. If they are unhappy with it, it wont pass.

 

 They even defect ADR approved steering wheels, Engineers certificates, and emission tests (which here in Adelaide cost 2k+)

 

And you cannot take them to court, because they are covered by the law itself...

If you have the courage and some money. Take Regency to court, I don't care what Act of SA Parliament they operate under, the SA Govt can NEVER EVER take away your rights to Australian Common Law. Make sure what you are fighting them on is 100% legal. Then make a song and dance about it on TV, radio, in the print, everywhere you can. The idea is to embarass the crap out them, the current affairs TV programs just love it.

If not then, drive 2.5 hours to Serviceton (just over the border from Bordertown), rent a post box and get the rego transferred to Victoria. Then tell the SA Govt that they are missing out on revenue because of Regency. :upurs:

If enough people do either of the above it will change, if I lived in SA I wouldn't complain about it, personally I would do something to change it.

[EnricoPalazzo]

Its easy to say that Gary....

[EnricoPalazzo]

Now back on topic,

Has anyone got any experience with running a Garrett t3/t04e hybrid turbo.

They seem to be good for around 500hp, and are not meant to be very laggy.

Does anyone know?

http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-garrett.php

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/t3-4.html

they come internal or ext gate aswell.

[Sydneykid]

Its easy to say that Gary....

I have done it in NSW, a bunch of us got together and the emissions testing facility was closed for 4 years as a result. I have also "been to court" on a couple of other issues (mostly successful) and I have one on at the moment over Speed Cameras and their maintenance. So I don't just talk about it.

[EnricoPalazzo]

u tha man!

[Sydneykid]

Now back on topic,

Has anyone got any experience with running a Garrett t3/t04e hybrid turbo.

They seem to be good for around 500hp, and are not meant to be very laggy.

Does anyone know?

http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-garrett.php

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/t3-4.html

they come internal or ext gate aswell.

The Turbonetics is the go, (it has balls) but be carefull of the surge limit. Being capable of 50 lbs per minute of airflow they run very close to the surge line on RB25's when below their efficiency. This is between 0.5 and 1 bar of boost and between 12 and 25 lbs per mimute, namely, where you drive a lot of the time. Have a look at the compressor maps (unlike HKS, Turbonetics make theirs available).

Hope that helps

[EnricoPalazzo]

ive loaded up 25 different compressor maps into this program called turbocalc on the ray hall website. I think the t043-60 trim suits the car best as i plotted in my drivin points and they came up in the most efficient areas.

I have been advised to go .63 A/R over .48 as the .63 will allow more power, and also that an external wastegate would be recommended over internal.

What are ur thinkings?

thanks

dean