adding sensors/gauges to an R33 with a Neo

[mikel]

Hi guys,

I did some searches, and got some useful info...but need some more, hence this thread.

I've got a 1997 R33 series 2 GTST with a mostly stock Neo motor and Power FC ECU and I'd like to get a better idea of what's going on inside the engine regarding oil/water temps etc beyond what the standard R33 gauges provide.

What are the key metrics/parameters I should keep an eye on for a street car that sees occasional track work? - I'm assuming accurate engine oil and water temps would be the priority, but are there others (eg oil pressure)?

Does a 1997 R33 Series 2 have an OBD2 connector I could get the water temp from? (with a Power FC)?

I've got a remote oil cooler that has the sandwich plate on the engine that the oil filter mounts to - it appears to have a port on the side that could take an oil temp sensor.

Apologies for the poor photo focus - I've circled the port on the sandwich plate I think would take an oil temp sensor. The two braided lines in the foreground run to the oil cooler.

What's recommended as an aftermarket sensor/gauge solution for oil temp...and likely a big stretch - is there any way to get this data to the OBD2 port (assuming my R33 has one, and PFC etc)?

Happy to install some "old school" gauges for water and oil temp if required, but connectivity via OBD2 has lots of advantages if it's possible...I realise my car is 22 years old and OBD2 was just coming in...and it has a PFC

cheers

Mike

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by mikel

[GTSBoy]

Yes, your car has a port.  Not OBD.  Consult.  But the PowerFC is not a Nissan ECU, so you're not getting shit out of it.  The stupid PowerFC handset will tell you coolant temp, but that's it.

Your sandwich plate is a good spot to pick either or both of oil temp and pressure.  Both are a good idea.  The factory oil pressure gauge cannot be trusted.  The thing to consider when putting an oil temp sensor is the question of whether you are measuring the oil before or after the cooler.  There are different points of view, but arguably the safest thing to measure is the hottest oil (ie, before if goes through the cooler).

Coolant temp is a good idea.

Exhaust gas temp entering the turbo is a good idea.

The cheapy stepper motor gauges like Pro-Sport can do a decent job.  But proper brands like Defi, Apexi or VDO, Smiths etc etc are all a better idea.  The best idea is to bin the PowerFC and use a decent aftermarket ECU that can watch a whole range of sensors (all those mentioned above) and report them as required, alarm when required and protect the engine when required.

Edited February 12, 2019 by GTSBoy

[hardsteppa]

Nothing wrong with a power fc, esp if its still mostly stock.

My imitation-defi chin3se knockff mutli-gauge unit is still going strong for years now and only a few hundred off ebay. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

or buy an Engine Guardian 2, EG2 off eBay

Simple, has 2x 1/8 NPT sensors, can setup audible alarms and also use as an external fan controller. I recommend these for simple track/street cars with minimum crap.

One can even use the fan output to cut the boost solenoid too, so if you exceed an oil temp/and or water temp you can have the relay cut power to your EBC solenoid

 

[mikel]

cheers guys,

21 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

The thing to consider when putting an oil temp sensor is the question of whether you are measuring the oil before or after the cooler.  There are different points of view, but arguably the safest thing to measure is the hottest oil (ie, before if goes through the cooler).

agreed - but how do I determine which way mine is setup?

22 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Exhaust gas temp entering the turbo is a good idea

prob something I'll think about when I do an ECU upgrade...

...but sounds like oil temp, oil pressure, and coolant temp are the basics to start with...

7 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

or buy an Engine Guardian 2, EG2 off eBay

Simple, has 2x 1/8 NPT sensors, can setup audible alarms and also use as an external fan controller. I recommend these for simple track/street cars with minimum crap

I couldn't find oil temperature mentioned on their site - only "engine temperature" which I assume is coolant temperature? but your post says 2 sensors, so can it measure both oil temperature and coolant temperature?

I like the idea of a buzzer, as I cooked a head when the water pump failed on my previous engine, and things can go wrong quickly under that scenario, even if keeping a good eye on the gauges.

8 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

One can even use the fan output to cut the boost solenoid too, so if you exceed an oil temp/and or water temp you can have the relay cut power to your EBC solenoid

Unfortunately not an option in my case - I'm running a Turbotech bleed valve

The EG2 is an inexpensive option for a coolant temp gauge, even better if it can do do oil temps also?? but it doesn't seem so from what I can find?

23 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

But proper brands like Defi, Apexi or VDO, Smiths etc etc are all a better idea

I'm thinking decent brand Oil Pressure, Oil Temp and Water Temp gauges - and looking at the VDO website, the 52mm diam gauges would fit in the convenient spot under the stereo head unit - not ideal for viewing in the middle of a hot lap of course - but better than the tacho position on the HK Monaro - what were Holden thinking?

If cabling permits on the stereo, I could move the head unit down and have the gauges above, which would be better - still not ideal, but should be fine for a street car that doesn't see much track use.

The sandwich plate on my oil filter has two spare ports - I'm assuming there's no such thing as a combined oil pressure/temperature sensor? and a temp sensor goes in one and a pressure sensor in the other? (temp sensor preferably in the line to the oil cooler, not from), or do you take oil pressure from elsewhere?

Apologies for noob questions...

cheers

Mike

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yes it can, 2x sensors 2x Independent temperatures. 

I've setup numerous EG2s

[GTSBoy]

There's almost no difference between an oil temperature gauge and a water temperature gauge.  Just the marking.  Same with the sensors.

[mikel]

15 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

There's almost no difference between an oil temperature gauge and a water temperature gauge.  Just the marking.  Same with the sensors.

I get that the gauge and sensor is the same for measuring both oil and coolant temp - but it's best to have a gauge setup where you can check oil temp independently from coolant temp right?

Mike

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yes, it cycles between the 2x temperatures.

 

[mikel]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:38 AM, GTSBoy said:

There's almost no difference between an oil temperature gauge and a water temperature gauge.  Just the marking.  Same with the sensors.

I understand your post now - my confusion was around the ability for the Engine Guardian EG2 to measure 2 different temperatures (ie from 2 temperature sensors).

I PM'd @Dose Pipe Sutututu and he sent me a link for the EG3 - which does manage 2 sensor inputs ?

I also got a quick response from Carsensors.com overnight on email confirming the same thing.

The EG3 takes 2 temp sensors in either 1/8 NPT or bolt on.

For AU$169 it's worth trying out...

I'll likely get 2 x NPT and 1 bolt on sensor to give me the option of any 2...

...While typing this post, I've been email conversing with Carsensors.com and I've just purchased an EG3 - AU$153 with a direct PayPal transaction - delivered with 2 x NPT temp sensors + 1 x bolt on temp sensor.

I'll need some more bits to fit it, but I'll wait till it arrives to work out what's required...one of those inline housings for the top radiator hose for sure, but here's hoping the oil temp NPT sensor will just screw into the existing oil filter sandwich plate...or maybe I'll need an adaptor.

I've also got Nissan LLC coolant ready to go in, so it makes sense to do the coolant temp sensor + oil temp sensor + gauge install and change oil and coolant all at the same time (well likely over 2 weekends)

I've got Happy Laps in a couple of weeks and I've just put fresh oil in, so I think I'll wait till after that to fit everything...Happy Laps isn't too hard on the car compared to a proper track day or the drags...

cheers

Mike

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

All good bro

happy to help out people willing to give it a go!!!

[mikel]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:35 PM, GTSBoy said:

The thing to consider when putting an oil temp sensor is the question of whether you are measuring the oil before or after the cooler.  There are different points of view, but arguably the safest thing to measure is the hottest oil (ie, before if goes through the cooler).

so I have a sandwich plate with 2 hoses connected to a remote oil cooler (the silver braided hoses in the foreground), and 2 possible (currently blanked off) ports on the sandwich plate to take an oil temp reading from - I'd prefer to take the reading from the port before it goes to the cooler - how do I determine which port that is?

 

cheers,

Mike

[GTSBoy]

Take the sandwich plate off and work out which way the oil flows.  Out of the engine, into one part of the plate or the other, out through some hole, back through the other, etc etc.

[mikel]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:35 AM, GTSBoy said:

Take the sandwich plate off and work out which way the oil flows.  Out of the engine, into one part of the plate or the other, out through some hole, back through the other, etc etc.

thanks @GTSBoy - I figured as much...

Another noob question - forgetting sandwich plates for the moment - from my interweb searches it looks like the oil flows out of the engine through the perimeter (outside) ports of an oil filter, then through the filter and back through the middle where the filter screws on - is this correct?

I might try a lazy option first - use a laser thermometer on the 2 braided lines to the cooler - pull up during a spirited drive and the return line "should" be a few degrees lower in temperature (assuming the oil cooler is doing its job)???

I'll pull stuff off if I need to, but I also like to apply the "if it's not leaking, don't muck with it" approach...

The oil cooler/sandwich plate was fitted in Japan (I'm the first owner from import) and there are some other GReddy bits on the car, so I took a punt and searched for Greddy oil cooler bits.

this

looks similar to this on my engine

still interweb searching for detail on the GReddy kit, but from other 'net photos I've found it looks like the sensor port on the left/upper gold bolt is on the correct side for measuring the hot oil from the engine rather than cooler oil returning from the oil cooler.

Unfortunately I can't find detailed info on the GReddy site , but the hopefully the laser thermometer approach will confirm this...but swapping the bolts/plugs over is easy if I need to...

What are the chances the 1/8NPT sensor will screw straight into that sensor port on the upper/left gold bolt?

cheers

Mike

[GTSBoy]

Shouldn't be NPT.  All Jap threads are equivalent to BSP.  This very argument/topic has been thrashed around on SAU for a long time now.  Do a search.  You'll probably also find details on the oil flow in various threads on here, including for the Greddy plate.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Back then when I used the same type of block, I just tapped with a 1/8npt into the blanking cap. Then smeared a bit of gasket maker onto it before fitting.

Didn't leak at all for 4 years. 

[mikel]

Shouldn't be NPT.  All Jap threads are equivalent to BSP.  This very argument/topic has been thrashed around on SAU for a long time now.  Do a search.  You'll probably also find details on the oil flow in various threads on here, including for the Greddy plate.

I found lots of useful info - including the flow info - cheers

[mikel]

Back then when I used the same type of block, I just tapped with a 1/8npt into the blanking cap. Then smeared a bit of gasket maker onto it before fitting.
Didn't leak at all for 4 years. 

Sounds like the best option is to swap the blanking plugs (the correct side is the one with the likely BPT nipple) and tap the other plug with 1/8 NPT

Cheers guys

Mike

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

1 hour ago, mikel said:

Sounds like the best option is to swap the blanking plugs (the correct side is the one with the likely BPT nipple) and tap the other plug with 1/8 NPT

Cheers guys

Mike

If you're in Sydney, come borrow my tap kit 

[mikel]

On 2/23/2019 at 6:24 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

If you're in Sydney, come borrow my tap kit 

thanks for the very kind offer Johnny - the community of SAU is a great thing!

unfortunately I'm in Brisbane, but it shouldn't be too hard to sort.

cheers

Mike