Fuel smelling oil / fuel and oil in catch can

[pogman]

You should be able to run a breather on the can and still have a vacum from the can to the intlet pre turbo post maf. That way it still sucks the fumes away but now wont over apply vacum to cam covers.

Yeh its more about making it at least look legal and functional but if i have to ill just pop a breather on it if that works best for the engine. As i dont exactly want to pay for another forged engine build just to keep the coppers happy

[GTSBoy]

15 hours ago, Slap said:

It will change what the maf sees so do a reset if your on the stock ecu.(4 other readers) This will also extend maf res by causing an air leak post maf pre turbo

I can guarantee you that an ECU reset will not magically make the ECU able to deal with a bypass leaking air around the AFM.  It just won't.  The maths inside the ECU is basically this;

• Volts read at the AFM goes into x axis of lookup curve for the AFM used on the car.  This gives a raw load value out to the ECU to carry on with.
• The ECU then takes that raw load number and the current rpm and works out the specific load value, which in Nissan ECU speak is called the TP value.  The TP value is then used to directly lookup the fuel and ignition maps.

The ECU really and truly thinks that the load is the TP value.  If the AFM is reading low because you have created a leak around it, then the TP value will be low and the ECU will be looking at a column to the left of teh real engine operating point and you could very easily put in completely the wrong amount of fuel and the wrong timing and it could be lean and too advanced and ping itself to death.  Not cool.  Absolute fact.  Cannot argue with it.  The only thing that the ECU can do is to use the short and long term fuel trims (learnt from the O2 sensor) to counteract the fact that the mixtures will be wrong and make corrections to the mixtures.  These corrections are not cell for cell across the whole maps either.  They are at much lower resolution than the real maps, and so cannot give you correction that will be able to deal with map regions that end up lean AND map regions that end up rich.  There is no fixing the timing problem.  The ECU simply cannot do anything about it.  And worse, the ECU cannot do anything to really even fix incorrect mixtures when it is running open loop, because it runs direct from the fuel map without much input from the STFT and LTFT.  And when you're on high load open loop is when you're most likely to blow the engine up.

The only way you can create a bypass around the AFM to extend the range of the AFM is to then retune the ECU maps to take the new reading into account.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

How rich is your tune? could be fuel/combustion gasses being pushed into the crank and then making its way back up.

Also was the motor fitted with decent restrictors when it was built? If not, is there a head drain?

[Slap]

Why i stated its dangerous if over size!

Yes it uses maps that cant be corrected perfectly. But can still be managed.
Not every one can afford an aftermarket ecu and a tune.
Stock ecu has some leeway,
I always heard the stock ecu runs a bit rich especialy when boost is uped.

The inlet sucks at high rpm through the rockers and the pcv and will be first limited by the hose connecting the inlet and its max flow rate. Regardless of where its sucking from it wont change much at high rpm unless the hose diameter has been uped.
There will be more o2 less fumes entering using a vent in the setup.
The extra res isnt much but can be that lil bit more some people need to avoid fuel cut or get that extra psi.
Closed loop driving will self correct and will be helped from the reset.
Similar to puting a better turbo on the same tune... the car would do better with a tune but hey if ya cant ya cant.

And boost transition is actualy the most dangerous area with a mod like this! Maps are stable and can be corrected using manual overides.

I gaurantee that not everyone can magically get a tune and ecm!
They would rather spend fark all and gain just a lil.

Theres a scale people use some times...
Its called- is it worth it...
Some people can pay $20 for the right 4 nuts cause they can others find what else works for as lil as possible and go with it.

If i could get the newest ecu and a dyno tune done every post i make i would. Who wouldnt.

I can guarantee you that an ECU reset will not magically make the ECU able to deal with a bypass leaking air around the AFM.  It just won't.  The maths inside the ECU is basically this;

• Volts read at the AFM goes into x axis of lookup curve for the AFM used on the car.  This gives a raw load value out to the ECU to carry on with.
• The ECU then takes that raw load number and the current rpm and works out the specific load value, which in Nissan ECU speak is called the TP value.  The TP value is then used to directly lookup the fuel and ignition maps.

The ECU really and truly thinks that the load is the TP value.  If the AFM is reading low because you have created a leak around it, then the TP value will be low and the ECU will be looking at a column to the left of teh real engine operating point and you could very easily put in completely the wrong amount of fuel and the wrong timing and it could be lean and too advanced and ping itself to death.  Not cool.  Absolute fact.  Cannot argue with it.  The only thing that the ECU can do is to use the short and long term fuel trims (learnt from the O2 sensor) to counteract the fact that the mixtures will be wrong and make corrections to the mixtures.  These corrections are not cell for cell across the whole maps either.  They are at much lower resolution than the real maps, and so cannot give you correction that will be able to deal with map regions that end up lean AND map regions that end up rich.  There is no fixing the timing problem.  The ECU simply cannot do anything about it.  And worse, the ECU cannot do anything to really even fix incorrect mixtures when it is running open loop, because it runs direct from the fuel map without much input from the STFT and LTFT.  And when you're on high load open loop is when you're most likely to blow the engine up.
The only way you can create a bypass around the AFM to extend the range of the AFM is to then retune the ECU maps to take the new reading into account.

[Ben C34]

Slap, the pcv sucks nothing when the inlet manifold is under boost. It is a check valve, so not sure what you are on about with that wacky theory post above.

No one does that. It is strange to suggest it.

 

[GTSBoy]

24 minutes ago, Slap said:

Some people can pay $20 for the right 4 nuts cause they can others find what else works for as lil as possible and go with it.

Did you ever wonder why i wanted them?

[pogman]

How rich is your tune? could be fuel/combustion gasses being pushed into the crank and then making its way back up.

Also was the motor fitted with decent restrictors when it was built? If not, is there a head drain?

I have had a fair few people look over the tune at high load and cruise and they were all happy with it so i dont think its too far off. We had removed all restrictors to the head as the old owner went about over the top with them and the head was ruined which was suspected due to not enough oil and so as it still uses vct and hydraulic lifters still so we decided to try it without any restrictors with the oil returns already drilled larger. It currently has no head drain/vent but definitely want to be adding some vents/drains and some rb26 baffled cam covers to try and help get the oil back to the sump.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Removing the restrictors would add to the problem with the motor appearing to breathe heavily.

I would take off the head and pop in 2x 1.2mm restrictors into the rear feeds and whilst you're at it, install a head drain since the head is off. You'll need to clean it up a bit to remove all the swarf when you drill into it to fit the drain.

[Slap]

Actualy i stated high rpm not high boost just incase there was someone reading that runs n/a and is just looking at breather setups online and if you think a pvc is air tight your wrong they leak past the valve under boost most the time and have suction applied on the otherside.

It can even be the problem for some people with oil coming out the top.

Slap, the pcv sucks nothing when the inlet manifold is under boost. It is a check valve, so not sure what you are on about with that wacky theory post above.
No one does that. It is strange to suggest it.
 

[Slap]

Cause you can afford em

Did you ever wonder why i wanted them?

[Slap]

Especialy will need em if you have an uprated oil pump

I have had a fair few people look over the tune at high load and cruise and they were all happy with it so i dont think its too far off. We had removed all restrictors to the head as the old owner went about over the top with them and the head was ruined which was suspected due to not enough oil and so as it still uses vct and hydraulic lifters still so we decided to try it without any restrictors with the oil returns already drilled larger. It currently has no head drain/vent but definitely want to be adding some vents/drains and some rb26 baffled cam covers to try and help get the oil back to the sump. 

[pogman]

Removing the restrictors would add to the problem with the motor appearing to breathe heavily.
I would take off the head and pop in 2x 1.2mm restrictors into the rear feeds and whilst you're at it, install a head drain since the head is off. You'll need to clean it up a bit to remove all the swarf when you drill into it to fit the drain.

Ok i will definitely try that out when i take the head off to put in some valves, springs and retainers. Im a little confused on the usefulness of the head drain after reading through the oil control thread as people seem to lean more towards the inportance of the catch can working well and draining/breathing properly?

[pogman]

Especialy will need em if you have an uprated oil pump

Yeh shes just an n1 with billet gears so not a huge amount of flow

[GTSBoy]

8 hours ago, Slap said:

Cause you can afford em

Well, goes to show how far wrong you can be when you come to conclusions without knowing anything.

Ever tried to buy an 10x1.25 flanged nut?  Ever compared such a thing against the MASSIVE flanges on the ones Nissan uses on suspension connections?  I just happened to know that that particular nut on your wreck would provide exactly what I wanted for another task without having to try to find a vendor that actually stocks anything other than the tiny arse mini-flanged nuts that seem to be the only thing on the market.

And yes, I can afford them.  Something something something stopped breeding after 2 kids.

[GTSBoy]

7 hours ago, pogman said:

On 3/26/2019 at 6:43 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Removing the restrictors would add to the problem with the motor appearing to breathe heavily.
I would take off the head and pop in 2x 1.2mm restrictors into the rear feeds and whilst you're at it, install a head drain since the head is off. You'll need to clean it up a bit to remove all the swarf when you drill into it to fit the drain.

Ok i will definitely try that out when i take the head off to put in some valves, springs and retainers. Im a little confused on the usefulness of the head drain after reading through the oil control thread as people seem to lean more towards the inportance of the catch can working well and draining/breathing properly?

The head drain does drain a little extra, but it's main action is to provide an increase in the cross sectional area of flow paths upwards through the engine.  Crankcase gases that have more room to flow will flow more slowly, and pick up less oil, letting it drain to the sump.  That's why all the other things mentioned in the oil control thread that you can and should do are just as likely to fix an oil carryover problem.

[Ben C34]

10 hours ago, Slap said:

Actualy i stated high rpm not high boost just incase there was someone reading that runs n/a and is just looking at breather setups online and if you think a pvc is air tight your wrong they leak past the valve under boost most the time and have suction applied on the otherside.

It can even be the problem for some people with oil coming out the top.

Oh, you are right i did assume turbo application as most discussion is related to turbos on this forum..

if my PCV leaked under boost i would replace it. they aren't meant to leak, and i know for a fact if they are in good condition they don't leak under boost. i prefer to get rid of boost leaks, not accept them. 

[GTSBoy]

20 minutes ago, Ben C34 said:

i prefer to get rid of boost leaks, not accept them

Nonsense!  Bandaids are the literal and figurative solution to every problem.

[Slap]

Ok i will definitely try that out when i take the head off to put in some valves, springs and retainers. Im a little confused on the usefulness of the head drain after reading through the oil control thread as people seem to lean more towards the inportance of the catch can working well and draining/breathing properly?

The oil drain at the back is extra safety for when the oil builds in the back of the head from g force and high rpm, its basically just another path for the oil to return to the sump, allowing more flow back to the sump from within the engine is better than filling the can but either is good both better.
Im a cheap arse so if i did this i would just add an angled niple to the welsh plug instead of replacement with some expesnive junk flash eyecandy that never gets seen cept by you or a mechanic. But thats tour xhoice atm!

Do the restricters 4sure. They are ment for moments like this.

[Slap]

Well about knowing nothing ummm you were wrong about me being wrong but im getting used of that from you.

If you couldnt pay for em what would you do?

Also if it was i ...in your shoes well im in vic you sa but id go to a wreckers like pinch a part and pocket em whilst buying somthing i can flog on gbay like a gm map sensor. They probably wouldnt even charge for em.
And if you say they wont be found i beg to differ.

But im glad they were what you need.
Just trying to show you that the box is bigger than you see sometimes. Also its good to look outside it cause sometimes ya drop shid that dont seem important but is.
Also rules dont apply to experiments just the knowledge of the experiment does if you have that..

How did they tune cars before pc to ecu and dynometer technologies?
Dont bother gtsboy cause its just another window of opportunity for you to understand how i see it... not a real question.

Well, goes to show how far wrong you can be when you come to conclusions without knowing anything.
Ever tried to buy an 10x1.25 flanged nut?  Ever compared such a thing against the MASSIVE flanges on the ones Nissan uses on suspension connections?  I just happened to know that that particular nut on your wreck would provide exactly what I wanted for another task without having to try to find a vendor that actually stocks anything other than the tiny arse mini-flanged nuts that seem to be the only thing on the market.
And yes, I can afford them.  Something something something stopped breeding after 2 kids.

[Slap]

[emoji87][emoji23]Bahahaha better stock up on em. They all leak a bit once being used regular and as stated i didnt refrence boost because it wont matter unless the hose is increaed diameter. The max flow rate of the hose will be acheived regardless of boost lvl.

You guys are clutchin at straws.

Why dont you just admit that you are trolls and not tuners.

*rant
Never do you try to see the light but try to decay mine with what you see as light comin out your buts.

You guys always want me to bend backwards and bow to your wisdom but cant even take any aboard yourselves ..only try again and again to make out your clever by speilin off crap and not paying attention to the point that might i add you guys generaly bring up.

Why couldnt ya say that the voltage i read was an alternating dc current forming a frequency?

Why couldnt you see i obviously have my car idling on a xlosed loop map with the stock ecu?

Why cant you see that you contradict yourself whilst sucking up to oneanother for backup over and over and over but still you cant see where why ot what the hell you are ment to be discussing to understand next because your so caight up on being right that you end up wrong.

And im not saying you give wrong information cause you guys are correct when you say most of what you do...but you guys say it with out thought and earely timed to justify each other or yourself about the information yas are supllying and never opening your eyes past your correctivness to see the issues that you have created by flooding info without insight into peoples problems becuase ya know alot of shit but think everyone else is dum as shid and ya just wont take the time to understand before you go ahead correcting whats apparently wrong again causing a viral loop of B.S all to endup being told this shit again.

Pull ya farkin heads in. I dont care if i look a fool im not a tuner just a redneck car hacker. You are the apparant tuners use your knowlege wisely dont just piss it everywhere cause ya think it looks great!