Twin plate install on R32 GTR

[Blakeo]

Hi guys, this weekend I helped my friend install a Nismo Super Copper mix twin plate clutch into his GTR. 

We followed the Nissan Service Manual where applicable, and Nismo's instructions for installing the clutch - Along with using proper ARP hardware for the flywheel, and the bolts supplied by Nismo all torqued to spec.

As well, we replaced the master and slave with new OEM Nissan parts, and vacuum bled the whole system. 

The clutch feels great and the dead play is within the factory spec as per the Nissan Factory Service manual.

Clutch drives great on the street no issues. 

The issue he is having, when parked on a hill with the car off. If you put the car into first gear, let out the clutch and use the gearbox to essentially hold the car on the hill (so all the load is on the gearbox). You can't disengage the transmission out of first gear by pushing the clutch in (shifter locks into place), the car also won't roll backwards if you push the clutch in. 

I've told him not to do this as its essentially not great for the drivetrain and to use the handbrake, place car into neutral so the handbrake has the weight and then put the car into gear. 

Apparently it never use to do this with the single plate clutch in it. Is this a normal characteristic of a twin disc clutch or would this indicate the clutch isn't adjusted 100% correctly? 

Clutch doesn't seem to drag, in first gear with the clutch pushed in you can free rev it and car won't move. 

 

 

[Gojira34]

Hi, I don’t have much of an idea on your question, except that it doesn’t sound like a good idea to do that, would be pressure on the gear.

I would like to know what it’s like to drive, heavy clutch? Etc? I plan on putting one in my Gtt. Cheers

[DiscardTheWeak]

Hey there man, sorry to go off topic, but when you installed that twin disc, what bearing carrier did you use? I’m told reduced height bearing carrier should be used in order to  account for the increased height of the twin disc, however Nismo makes no mention of this and did not include a new carrier, only a new bearing. Any suggestions? Thanks 

[r32-25t]

Use the factory carrier 

[DiscardTheWeak]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:18 PM, r32-25t said:

Use the factory carrier 

Thanks, have you personally used the 18mm carrier with the Nismo twin plate? I’m told a 14mm carrier should be used to account for the increased height of the clutch, which makes sense. Of course I’ll measure all this to be sure, but these carriers in various sizes aren’t easy to get quickly. 

[r32-25t]

Yes I personally used the factory carrier in my car when I had the nismo copper mix twin plate in my car 

[BK]

On 13/02/2022 at 7:00 AM, DiscardTheWeak said:

Thanks, have you personally used the 18mm carrier with the Nismo twin plate? I’m told a 14mm carrier should be used to account for the increased height of the clutch, which makes sense. Of course I’ll measure all this to be sure, but these carriers in various sizes aren’t easy to get quickly. 

Twin and triples generally have a more compact height assemblies than the stock setup, requiring longer carriers. Standard flywheel is massive compared any other flywheel.

14mm is the stock carrier for push BNR32, not 18mm.

They are available in 2mm increments from about 10mm - 32mm. When the entire flywheel and clutch arrangement is shallower than standard, you use a longer carrier. As mentioned twin and triples usually have a longer carrier as they are generally more compact, using anywhere between 18mm and 30mm to move the release bearing face closer to the release fingers. All OS, ATS, Exedy, ORC clutches that I have seen all use longer release bearing carriers.

That said I had a look through the Nismo catalogue, and the only carrier for any model mentioned changing as an alternative part is for the S13 version. None of the kits include carriers either - just release bearing. This would imply that the Nismo coppermix usually is designed around the factory carriers on all other push versions.

I have a 14mm if required.

[DiscardTheWeak]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:25 AM, BK said:

Twin and triples generally have a more compact height assemblies than the stock setup, requiring longer carriers. Standard flywheel is massive compared any other flywheel.

14mm is the stock carrier for push BNR32, not 18mm.

They are available in 2mm increments from about 10mm - 32mm. When the entire flywheel and clutch arrangement is shallower than standard, you use a longer carrier. As mentioned twin and triples usually have a longer carrier as they are generally more compact, using anywhere between 18mm and 30mm to move the release bearing face closer to the release fingers. All OS, ATS, Exedy, ORC clutches that I have seen all use longer release bearing carriers.

That said I had a look through the Nismo catalogue, and the only carrier for any model mentioned changing as an alternative part is for the S13 version. None of the kits include carriers either - just release bearing. This would imply that the Nismo coppermix usually is designed around the factory carriers on all other push versions.

I have a 14mm if required.

Oh wow, that confuses me even more, as that is the exact opposite of what I’ve been told. I was under the impression 18mm was the factory height, and the twin plate clutches were taller, requiring a shorter bearing carrier. 

[BK]

On 13/02/2022 at 10:30 PM, DiscardTheWeak said:

Oh wow, that confuses me even more, as that is the exact opposite of what I’ve been told. I was under the impression 18mm was the factory height, and the twin plate clutches were taller, requiring a shorter bearing carrier. 

Only way will be to measure it up for sure.

[DiscardTheWeak]

On 2/13/2022 at 8:07 AM, BK said:

Absolutely not on both counts.

I have the factory BNR32 bearing carrier as part number 30501-S0200, superseded by 30501-S0284, those are 18mm carriers. Kudos Motorsport said I’ll need the 14mm carrier 30501-N1604, which is the same one that many twin plates come with. Not being argumentative, just want to be sure this is correct 

[BK]

No worries, I know what you're saying and your correct - the "factory" carrier is listed as the 18mm on FAST, but...

I have pulled out 3 x factory carriers from definitely factory fitted original clutches in 89 - 92 32 GTR before and all have been the 14mm carrier, not an 18mm. This I can't explain why - it's just what we've found. Did Nissan originally fit 14mm and changed to 18mm - possibly, but again there is no evidence on FAST of that. Even our own current white 32 with an exedy single was fitted to the existing 14mm, and after measuring it was determined that an 18mm was required and therefore fitted. This is the only time we've actually used an 18mm from memory. It's a tricky situation and if you search SAU there is threads upon threads of this carrier "should" be correct and this carrier "should" be the standard length and the isn't, a bit like this one:

 

See why I recommended that your might have to measure it to be absolutely sure, as I have found discrepancies with what is supposed to be and what is. Last thing you you want is to have too long a carrier as it will ride the bearing. Are you in a position to measure it up to confirm what you have and if it will suffice or not ?

It is very annoying that Nismo does not provide an actual exact carrier length as per every other clutch manufacturer like ATS twin = 30mm, ATS triple 18mm - 20mm (I use 20mm myself), OS R3C triple 26mm, OS R4C quad 18mm etc. as I have found these examples to be absolutely accurate.

Without waffling on too much more, the only clutches that seem to use the 12mm- 14mm carriers are the dampened and sprung centre twin clutches from OS, which is what a Nismo Coppermix twin is. Their assemblies are much bigger than the solid centre more compact twin / triple / quad plate clutches available that usually use the much longer carriers.

I will suspect that the push Nismo on the BNR32 will be the 14mm as Kudos has alluded to, good luck with it.