Faq: Apexi Powerfc - Frequently Asked Questions

[Ceffy_SA]

Great thread, i recently purchased a power FC AP Engineering version for my RB20 Cefiro except it did not come with a Commander, according to your write up Paulr33 i will need to Fcc2 nt controller, the serial number on my power FC unit is PFC R32 A0210, also anyone know where i can purchase a hand controller, i looked at greenline however their discontinued and the Apexi site USA has them for big $$$, ebay also big $$$, and second hand ones are few and far between, might have to bite the bullet and pay up or just pruchase the datalogic software and cable but im a bit of a noob when i comes to this and i dont have a laptop...

Thanks for the help

Ahh also, i have read the write up and if i install say GTR injectors into my RB20 will i still need the resistor pack from a GTR also with the Power FC like the standard ECU does, from reading the write up i think i do just need confimation thanks

Edited December 7, 2009 by Ceffy_SA

[paulr33]

www.nengun.com has

415-N001 Hand Commander Old version PFC AU $ 426.43

for new which is the same as FCC NT

[Ceffy_SA]

www.nengun.com has

415-N001 Hand Commander Old version PFC AU $ 426.43

for new which is the same as FCC NT

Ok thanks, you can always go older with the commander units? So the FCC NT and FCC NT2 would theoretically work on my AP Engineering Power FC, but not the FCC NT3?

[Brandon]

I dont know if anyone is aware of this or not but after I got the pfc installed and tuned, the car will jerk once or twice (max) when cruising. However, this does not always happen and even if it does, its only once (mostly). My mechanic told me it might be the attessa pump showing sign of failure but told me to keep an eye on the torque split gauge to confirm (it will move when it jerks). But it doesnt.

I have called my tuner up and he has confirm that this is a glitch in the pfc (doesnt matter the model) which you are not able to fix. He also assured me that this will not affect the performance or damage the car in anyway. Just thought of sharing this piece of info with everyone else and maybe Paul can add to the list in the URL. Cheers.

[paulr33]

yeah the BNR32/BCNR33 powerfc has a known misfire bug, its included in the PFC FAQ (search for misfire)

theres dozens of notes, tricks, possible workarounds and things to try etc

some work, some dont, there is no official work-around / fix

yeah and in regards to FCC NT, etc you won't be able to use FCC 3 as that is the hand controller model which is shipped as a pair

ie

originally

hand controller and PFC unit were sold seperately

so we had FCC, FCC NT, FCC 2

then apexi marketing changed it to be one big package

so we had

hand controller and PFC for same price

FCC 3 and PFC

so FCC 3 will only work on PFC units sold as a bundle (some people might only sell the HC for example)

so if you have older generation PFC (that was sold as single unit )then you need the first gen hand controller FCC NT or 415-N001 for nissan

the best way to tell what generation you have

look at the serial

if its

PFC-RB25 or PFC-RB26 etc etc then its first gen

if its

PFC-ECR33 or PFC_BNR32 etc then its second gen

they migrated for ENGINE based model codes to car based model codes

and this is the best known way to pick when generation you have and what hand controller you need

[jaycos]

can anyone tell me if i can connect the sense wire from the afm.ecu to a 0-5v input on my data logger to get a map reference

this is my dataloger

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

cheers jay

or is there a way to log boost ? im struggling as mapping it live is fine when i datalog theres very little to reference against

[tazsgtr]

I know that when you first install a Power FC you need to let it idle for 30 minutes. But if you reset a used Power FC, do you have to let it idle for 30 minutes as well?

[paulr33]

or is there a way to log boost ? im struggling as mapping it live is fine when i datalog theres very little to reference against

you need the optional boost control kit installed to log boost

the boost control kit is about $350 ish from memory

but if just want to log boost (like i did) then you can buy the boost control harness (plugs and wires) for about $35

and then the map sensor for $195 and plug it in and it works a treat - ie without the boost solenoid

otherwise you need to buy the whole kit for $350 and then not use the boost control feature

once you install the map sensor BOOST is displayed on the hand controller and it comes up in the logs

the PFC will also enable some of the additional the correction tables off the boost reading

ie temp correction vs boost

[paulr33]

I know that when you first install a Power FC you need to let it idle for 30 minutes. But if you reset a used Power FC, do you have to let it idle for 30 minutes as well?

no it is the same regardless

i recommend

1. read the PFC FAQ

2. plug in PFC

3. turn car to ON but don't start it

4. actvivate DATA INIT (erase tune)

5. turn car off

6. turn car to ON but don't start it

7. disable boost control kit if you arent using it

8. check ETC, SENSOR SW CHECK for any errors

9. dial in required injector and AFM corrections (if you have non-std)

10. start car and perform self idle learn procedure

11. power car off once done and restart to ensure stable idle

it's critical during the 30 minute idle learn you dont tap the accel or drive the car or play around

just follow the instructions, turn on the demister and aircon as instructed by the self idle procedure

if you do it wrong, the car will start and stall instantly, if this happens, DATA INIT and start again

[countryhick]

Hi Paul,

I read you have added an air temp sensor to a LJetro?

If this is possible, can the air temp reading be used as a correction factor? Or should the MAF be able to process extreme changes in air temp? eg. cool morning at Queensland raceway 15deg C (little to no knock) midday track air temp 45 deg C (knock getting up around 60-70)

Your advice would be appreciated

Andrew

[paulr33]

you can only add a ljetro air temp sensor where the PFC supports it

ie you cant add air temp on ECR33 PFC as ECR33 car never came with an airtemp sensor and the PFC for that unit has no physical airtemp sensor

to check if your car supports AIRTEMP look at ETC, SENSOR SW CHECK

and if you can see AIRT then your car supports airtemp sensor

[W0rp3D]

you can only add a ljetro air temp sensor where the PFC supports it

ie you cant add air temp on ECR33 PFC as ECR33 car never came with an airtemp sensor and the PFC for that unit has no physical airtemp sensor

to check if your car supports AIRTEMP look at ETC, SENSOR SW CHECK

and if you can see AIRT then your car supports airtemp sensor

i have an ecr33 and i have noticed that there is a listing on the hand controler for air temp but it shows nothing as there is no sensor, does this mean that i can add a sensor and get it to work?

[paulr33]

i have an ecr33 and i have noticed that there is a listing on the hand controler for air temp but it shows nothing as there is no sensor, does this mean that i can add a sensor and get it to work?

nope, as there is no physical airtemp code in the firmware, ie, no AIRT, no readout

even if you guess the wire (going from the BCNR33 loom) like i did, it still wont work, as the firmware wont do anything with a magical voltage on a wire its not expecting voltage for

your only option for airtemp on ECR33 is to fit a BCNR33 PFC and remap the tune to suit ECR33 and wire changes to make it run

ie; pointless for airtemp feature, whilst good, thats a very expensive and painful exercise (workshops can do it, but $$$$)

[W0rp3D]

PASS

If the option was there just to hook up a sensor i would do it but other than that it would be pretty useless to me and not worth the time, effort or money.

[paulr33]

yeah its not worth changing to BCNR33 PFC for that

be sure to note the following features are enabled when you have a working airtemp sensor

ignition retard vs airtemp - the PFC can back out timing when temp exceeds xxx DEG intake temp

boost vs airtemp - the PFC can back out boost, run less boost when temp exceeds XXX deg intake temp

ie if you had a working airtemp on ECR33 the tune would basically self adjust as the airtemp would be heaps higher vs winter. so you would say tune the ass out of the car in winter (like mine is) with heaps of timing and mega aggressive tune.

then when summer comes along the airtemp would be lets say around 25+ more than winter (ballpark) and you adjust the correction tables for airtemp. so when its summer it will run a touch less boost (you can choose how much less) and a touch less timing (you can choose how much) and its basicically self-adjusting.

the manual way (ive done this) is to simply back out 1 or 2deg across the whole map in summer

and have a winter / summer tune. the braindead way of permenantly doing this is to tune the car in summer

with the most relaxed timing you can run under full intake temp and then in winter, keep that same tune

ie you will be running the car a little under its ideal timing in winter, but you wont get knocking in summer

[paulr33]

the defaults for BCNR33 Airtemp look like this;

at 50deg airtemp retard 0 deg ignition timing

at 60deg airtemp retard 3 deg ignition timing

at 70deg+ airtemp retard 5 deg ignition timing

at 40deg airtemp injection correction is 1.00 - ie no change

at 70deg airtemp injection correction is 1.117 - ie richen up cos airtemp is high

at 100deg+ airtemp injection correction is 1.195 - ie richen up more cos airtemp is high

it also has the ability to cap max boost (ie open the solenoid earlier than normal) based on airtemp and water temp

i havented work out how these work yet, maybe iill try these on my GTST

as it looks like based on water temp, it can cap max boost

ie if water temp under 50deg, cap max boost at say 0.50kgcm2 instead of 0.85kgcm2 (normal target)

[paulr33]

from the datalogit yahoo groups

In settings 2. Inj Vs Air T, I can forget as I have no temp probe. and

being all set to 1.000 there's nothing to worry about. But Inj Vs

water temp and boost. It suggests that as the water temp goes above 95

degrees then it will add more fuel up to a correction of 1.094% +

other fuel settings at 110 degrees. To me that is a protection thing.

What is unclear is that the boost column, translated to load for

l-jetro starts lowish just after idle area and only extends up to in

my default case 11776 load. My P axis goes far higher and I drive in

far higher load numbers. If we use the theory that the PFC will

continue correcting at the last value that it corrected at before it

went off scale then after 11776 of load it would add extra fuel. Just

having thought about it it shouldn't matter If the engine is below 95

degrees the condition should not be met.

[paulr33]

the last bit doesnt make sense

on the airtmep vs ign vs boost

to me it sounds like when the water is hotter (over 95deg) it adds in more fuel

yep that makes sense, but that it goes on to say cap it at this AFM load range

so the table looks like this;

110 1.094 11776

95 1.0 7424

the first # is water temp, 2nd is injection correct, 3rd is boost (max) apparently

so the first two make sense, ie when hotter, add in more fuel to richen up and bring water temps down, but cap the AFM load doesnt make sense. the 3rd number is AFM load from the P range, 11776 is about 3/4 down on the left hand side, and 7424 is around half way. ie half load on the load axis range. why is it referenced like this? no idea

logical would say to me, this should be in kgcm2, as in, when water temp is 110 or highre, richen up and cap max boost much lower than normal target so the engine isn't overworked when mega high water temps

the same applies for airtemp vs ign vs boost

100 1.195 11776

70 1.117 (blank box)

40 1.000 7424

so thats for airtemp, ie at 40deg or higher do no correction ,but that max boost value is still there?

when we get to 70deg airtemp richen up and do nothing with boost

when we get to 100deg airtemp+ richen up more and use 11176 AFM load for boost max (apparently)

[kaspur]

hay just a Q wot are the greedy profec b boost controlers like and can u get all the imputs with a pfc and still do all the boost controls and which would be better pros and con if u could

[HEKT1K]

i have read the entire FAQ and google searched but couldn't find an answer:

i just installed my pfc the other day, did the data initialise and then the idle learn procedure (didn't touch throttle the entire time, let it idle for 10mins, then ran the AC for 10mins, turned off the AC and ran the windscreen demister for 10mins)

now it drives fine (untuned so i'm just babying it around) but it seems to have a bit of a problem returning to idle.

in the map tracer it seems to flick between the idle square and the one next to it ie. higher rpm. after about 10 seconds at idle it returns to the idle square and stays there.

the car ran perfectly on the stock ecu previously.

is it worth redoing the idle learn procedure? i followed the instructions in the FAQ as closely as i could

thanks