Air/fuel Ratio's And Good Old Knock!

[Mik]

ahh, thanks mate. that makes sense to my simple brain now ok, so the jaycar kit is off the menu...

not hard to make eh? well if you can make one, you will have my money I don't want any fancy gizmo either, just as long as it does the job, cause i will just stick it behind the dash and forget about it c'mon mik, you know you want to!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I might look into it when (if) I have some time...won't be for a while though, so much to do at the moment!

[Beer Baron]

mate, i'm not in a hurry. I will just enjoy the limiter i have now in the meantime. And i'm putting in a shift light which should mean i only ever get there on purpose from now one

[Duncan]

Oi back to AFRs biatches.

BTW I managed to blow an engine which was running 10.8:1 at standard boost

[Beer Baron]

yeah, but not from detonation though right? oil surge? and how was the ignition timing?

[williamsf1]

ok where do i buy a Bee - R rev limiter !!! that is exactly what I want.....

[williamsf1]

http://www.bee-r.com/english/revlimitter/inde.htm

ok I found this?

but how about a price?

[williamsf1]

http://www.bee-r.com/main/parts/revlamp/index.htm

and this too!

but I can't seem to find a price anywhere....

[lwells]

Dude... the edit button is there for a reason.

You can buy them from the Bee-R factory outlet on Yahoo Japan: http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n23731870

[williamsf1]

well thats great senor Wells, but buying from yahoo is a biatch, I was hoping there was an easier way without having all the added costs of having to go through a dealer of some sort.... it kind of defeats the purpose of buying there when all these people take a cut!

anyhow, good info.....

[lwells]

blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but it gives you a ballpark price doesn't it? If Bee-R are flogging them for Y20000 through their outlet, I would imagine retailers aren't going to be able to get them to you for much less than what, $300-odd (that's assuming they can get it lower than Bee-R is advertising to end customers)?

Edit: Here you go, yours for US$266:

http://www.takakaira.com/asp/table.asp?id=...STtPqQqlnMokrNm

Edit 2: It also has some interesting info about using it with a PFC:

My car using POWER FC. Can I install this REV LIMITER?

A earth grounding issue has to be resolved if a vehicle is fitted with an aftermarket APEXi Power FC unit. This grounding issue is due to a lack of a ground terminal in the APEXi unit. The REV LIMITER uses the ground signal to cut off the ignition signal from the ECU. Since APEXi Power FC is a piggy back computer, and manipulates the original engine parameters' signals from the ECU before re-routing these modified signals to the vehicle individual engine components, a separate grounding signal is required from the APEXi Power FC. Once this grounding issue has been resolved, the REV LIMITER will be able to function as it is intended to be.

[midnight]

weird... the PFC isnt a piggyback

im using one of these with an emanage and it seems to work fine..

[«Cyph3r»]

Techtom make an ignition controller/launch controller with an optional audible + visual alarm module.

I was thinking about buying an AEM uego wide band lambda AFR guage for my car to monitor afrs for peace of mind as i can't find anywhere to buy the better looking neko afr modules from.

Anyone here know anything about either?

[Sydneykid]

These are the shift lights used in some SuperTourers, the sequential is around 98Pounds (exc VAT).

Omex also do rev limiters, rev limiters with launch control and combined rev limiters and shift lights.

I don't understand the paranoia over fuel cut rev limiters. The engine doesn't run lean on the rev limit, it DOEN'T RUN AT ALL, there is no fuel, so it's NOT LEAN. That cylinder is simply not running, ZERO COMBUSTION, not lean combustion. If you are really so paranoid about leaning out on the rev limit, then set up the fuel map so it runs super rich just before the rev limit rpm. And mega rich after that. You might even get some pretty flames out of the exhaust if you are lucky.

There is plenty of reason to say that a fuel cut rpm limiter is much gentler on an engine than an ignition cut rpm limiter. I don't really think that Apexi are that stupid to use an rpm limiting system that will damage an engine. I have moved on from that urban myth, probably spread by sellers of other brands of ECU looking for a way to slow the take over by Power FC's.

Based on what I have experienced, the Power FC rev limiter is far more accurate than the standard tacho. That's the most likely reason why you see rpm's higher than the rev limit is set to. Aftermarket tachos are not much better, based on what we see in the data logging on the race cars.

Enough of the side track, back onto the main subject of this thread, A/F ratios and knock.

When I am involved in the tuning of one of the race cars, I calibrate the lambda sensor before and after we do the tuning. That way I can be sure we are seeing consistent results, with reliable A/F ratio base data. This may be a bit extreme for a retail shop, as they would have to charge for the calibration time.

A hard hit on the rpm limiter (1st or 2nd gear) can sometimes result in increased knock readings. It is more common with ignition cut rpm limiters, as you get uncontrolled combustion occurring (ie; not in the combustion chamber).

My 20 cents worth for now

cheers

Edited September 26, 2005 by Sydneykid

[«Cyph3r»]

The reason Power FC pro have ignition cut as opposed to fuel cut rev limiter is because of the launch control uses ignition cut to build boost without load on the engine, ie can sit at staging and dial up x revs with foot to floor and have it build up to full boost sitting there before you launch. Also i suspect the ignition cut would stop the boost from dropping off when you hit limiter before a gearchange whereas maybe with fuel cut the boost would drop off slightly?

Edited September 27, 2005 by «Cyph3r»

[Abo Bob]

Oi back to AFRs biatches.

BTW I managed to blow an engine which was running 10.8:1 at standard boost

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I managed to blow mine with 10-10.4 AFR's. Overboost city though.

So... how about those air/fuel ratios?

[williamsf1]

SK to the rescue again and out with those old wives tales....

so I could simply look at the fuel map for 8000rpm and above, and slightly richen it up, as the limiter is 8200rpm and Im not making any more power or torque above say 7700rpm anyhow....

nice I will have a look at it

[blk180]

Just had my power fc installed and now its tuned it has knocks o about 20-30 all the time and has hit as high as 40 so from what i read this is ok my engine has billet rods and forged pistons dose this affect the knock in any way

thanks Brad

[gtst25]

.

Enough of the side track, back onto the main subject of this thread, A/F ratios and knock.

When I am involved in the tuning of one of the race cars, I calibrate the lambda sensor before and after we do the tuning. That way I can be sure we are seeing consistent results, with reliable A/F ratio base data. This may be a bit extreme for a retail shop, as they would have to charge for the calibration time.

My 20 cents worth for now

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hı SK,

Just ınterested ın how a tunıng shop calıbrates a lambda sensor?

I thought you have to do somethıng lıke blow pure oxygen through ıt say for a zero readıng and go from there?

Just ınterested as I just purchased a 2E0 kıt from tech edge.

Cheers

G

[Sydneykid]

.

Hı SK,

Just ınterested ın how a tunıng shop calıbrates a lambda sensor?

I thought you have to do somethıng lıke blow pure oxygen through ıt say for a zero readıng and go from there?

Just ınterested as I just purchased a 2E0 kıt from tech edge.

Cheers

G

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simplistically, all a lambda sensor does is compare the oxygen in the exhaust with the oxygen around in the ambient air. Since the ambient air is what goes into the engine, it is entitrely valid to compare what goes in with what comes out. Hence no need for a pure oxygen calibration.

So, bascially what is require to do a calibration is to heat up the lambda sensor, using its own inbuilt heater, with the lambda sensor itself fully exposed to the ambient air (ie; not in the exhaust). The heat up time, temperature and rate is controlled by the A/F meter and is specific/unique for each type of lambda sensor. Takes around 30 seconds to a minute to achieve calibration temperature. The A/F meter is then set to calibrate mode, since the lambda sensor is open to ambient air it calibrates itself so that the readings are the same. Calibration completed, let the lambda sensor cool down so that you can install it into the exhaust.

This only takes 5 to 10 minutes depending on A/F metres, but it is amazing how infrequently it is done.

The instructions for calibrating the lambda sensor (both initial/first time and ongoing calibrations) on the 2EO is included in the instructions. They are available on download as well.

I will be very interested in how you get on with building the 2EO kit and how it functions once it is built. I have opened up a new thread on buying building and using a Tech Edge A/F ratio Meter, please post in that thread any tips and comments on your experiences. I have the following on order;

1 X Wideband 2A0 kit (4.0 cable kit & 7057 connector)

1 X TE-LD02 LED Display kit

1 X 0 258 007 057 LSU sensor

1 X 2A0 to 2A1 upgrade

Would be good to compare build and useage experiences.

cheers

Edited October 16, 2005 by Sydneykid

[TurbostyleR]

you can get a MSD DIS4 ignition system - that has an ignition cut rather than a fuel cut that the power fc uses...

However they are very expensive! - trust me i know