Lithium

Not "V-Cam" but the exact same technology - does this count? I'm not here for trolling at all, just from my perspective it looks like you have the wrong end of the stick so just doing due diligence and will leave you to it if you have considered everything and aren't compromising yourself due to not knowing. I get the impression you are shooting for only 500hp? If so, then comparing with "drag cars" etc is irrelevant - they NEED 9000rpm to achieve the flow and powerband required to get down the strip fast. For 500hp from an RB25 you REALLY don't need those rpm, in fact you are making life very hard for yourself. Realistically you can make 500hp with the Tomei VCT friendly cams and a turbo which is on at a point where VCT is VERY helpful to drag racing as well as drivability as well as making it easier to launch and keep everything on steam. Fwiw I've not tuned an RB25 where the optimal VCT turn off point is at all as low as 4700rpm. The fact you said that "4700rpm" change over point is optimal for all cams and situations is what triggered me to suspect your knowledge on these motors and tuning is such that you may be spending much more money and making a much more "difficult" build for yourself than you need to be to achieve the power targets you are after. If you are actually aiming for something WAY north of that then things make more sense, or alternately if know you are building something much laggier and more unreliable than you need to for those results then sweet as - I just like to see people put their money and effort into something they don't regret, so just pointing it out that for 500hp these days you don't have to have everything happening >5000rpm and have something with no VCT and potential for suspect reliability to achieve that.

The "cracking" pressure of the new one is around 17psi, the old one around 8-9psi. The plan was to run it up to around 20psi, or at least what it would run happily - last time that obviously wasn't a thing.

On Thursday night we'll give this BW "high pressure" canister a spin, weather permitting. Here's hoping this helps the cause

In a nutshell, yes - maybe not quite technology, so much as "more focussed". One thing worth keeping in mind, the most significant change between say a Gen2 GTX3076R and the GT3076R which was commonplace 15 years ago is the compressor wheel. It's the same turbine wheel (both material and design), same exhaust housing, and the same ball bearing core - the GTX introduced steel bearing cages (which were only an extra cost option on GT-series) which is purely a reliability thing as sometimes people have issues with the plastic cages on the earlier GTs... this does nothing for performance. At face value the newer Gen2 GTX compressor wheels may prove to be better design than the EFRs, they certainly flow impressively well for the power they make but I am hesitant to launch to any conclusions about how good they are or aren't compared to the EFR range. I'd guess that if you got right down to it, the EFR equivalent will be more responsive but it could be debatable how measurable or relevant that is - if I had the means to try one and the other on an equivalent setup then I'd love to as it'd be an interesting thing. Given a huge amount of the response comes down to the turbine wheel etc, I really struggle to see how a Gen2 GTX3071R will compete with an EFR7064 in terms of drivability HOWEVER I also have full confidence the Gen2 Garrett will make more power - too. The next size down Garrett is the GTX3067R which flows quite a bit less than the EFR7064, so there is no direct parallel but I have to say - if this EFR7064 hits in the region of 300kw @ hubs like we are hoping then it is seriously SUCH a good street setup it's not funny. I never would have believed an RB25 capable of that power would drive like that

I mentioned above that the GTX3071R would be the closest equivalent, I'll have to add here - there is no full on Garrett equivalent of ANY EFR turbo. All the Garrett turbos have inconel exhaust wheels, all the EFRs have Titanium Alloy ones... it's not quite the same but also kind of like saying "What is the equivalent Garrett plain bearing T-series turbo to a GTX3076R?" There are none, they are journal bearing for a start - the best you can do is find one which makes similar power, but you can't expect it to respond the same with with a journal bearing core. Same goes for the low inertia turbines vs conventional ones

Who is Greg/what is his setup? This car isn't mine, just one that I tune. The closest equivalent to this turbo would be a Gen1 GTX3071R, I've not experienced a GTX3071R but I can say this smashes the crap out of my old GT3076R in terms of response. Like it's not even comparable. I would actually be interested to get this side by side with a stock turbo R33 to see exactly how different they are.

Yeah sounds a lot like the power delivery in those dyno runs are not really going to be a great comparison. Here is a clip show the actuator opening with rpm, this is with ~80-85% duty on the EFR boost control solenoid. video-1497809438.mp4

Sounds solid - what Holset turbo? got a dyno plot?

Not sure. The power curve is there so it should give an indication of the torque it is making. Boost was already falling before the rpm reached where RB25s make peak torque so it'll be lower than what would do the setup justice (like peak power) - I'll endevour to get a full dyno plot when we are able to do the full tune to the level we aimed for in the first place

In case folks hadn't been following, the above is a T3 0.83 internally gated EFR7064 on an RB25 - btw. A helpful mate has offered use of his high pressure BW actuator to test out on this car to make sure that fixes it before buying things, thanks @Sub Boy32! Hoping that it allows us to hold around 18-19psi, or whatever it seems appropriate to run

Tune #1 done, I was a bit concerned about this happening but it is what it is - the BW EFR internal wastegate is a big pile of fail and blows open as exhaust pressure builds. The turbo itself seems to perform awesome, VE is holding nicely up to 7000rpm so far and no hints of excess back pressure, intake temps never reached 30C... I'm going to try and get video of the gate opening as rpm increase despite having 80% duty on the boost control solenoid. 256kw at 14psi, hitting 18psi by 3500rpm - will be revisited at some point with a Turbosmart dual port actuator. Car drives basically like a Euro, it spools better on the road than my Mazdaspeed 3 with the stock K04

That's not a 9180... sort it out!

Weird, ok this then

I did?

Yeah, been rotated around 180 from there - the BOV is very close to the exhaust manifold, and the boost control solenoid has been relocated.

This is how it looked on the engine stand.... may actually give the best impression of space

No, I'll try and get a pic on Saturday but it fits nicely. No idea why they turned off tagging on here, was going to tag Discopotato as I suspect he may like the EFR7064 at first impression.

What power is it making on the EFR versus the Garrett? And yeah, anti-surge whistles tend to be at their most obnoxious at moderate load at low rpm - which can be a pain if you intend on driving around a very responsive setup like a normal car in an area with lots of hills haha. EFR7163 came up in convo for this car as well, but the larger turbine and the whole T3 internally gated housing idea won out for the stock manifold RB25 idea. The 7064 fits much better than my old GT3076R setup did, the response seems great to the point more could be a downside and I have no reason to think that so long as everything (ie, internal gate actuator) is up to the task that the 7064 won't be capable of 300kw @ wheels - it's a mid 50lb/min turbo, afterall. It's already at the point that the boost curve on the dyno is irrelevant, if it makes ~300kw in our money (the hub dyno I use run the way I run it) it will easily be the best street RB25 turbo setup I've experienced - especially bolting on to the stock manifold.

Last night we went out for a bit of a drive to get a start up/safely drivable tune into the EFR7064/RB25 setup to try and find and eliminate any potential headaches for the dyno on Saturday and all went very well. Mostly pretty soft stuff but all seems to be working pretty well, no "full pulls" or anything like that but I feel this graph gives a bit of an idea of of how easy it is to make it spool. The top graph with the blue line is MAP, the bottom light blue one is throttle - this was just giving a solid roll on the gas and short shifting to get up to speed merging onto the motorway, at least as a passenger it felt basically naturally aspirated... the owner (who was driving) also mentioned that to me at one point during the drive. He is outright excited to see what it does on the dyno, but response wise he is already totally stoked - was better than he expected, I had actually talked him up in size as he was initially thinking about smaller being a bit concerned about lag for his road car. As it turns out, the only complaint is that the antisurge housing whistles almost constantly - even cruising at 100kph on the flat, so he's going to build an airbox around the filter etc to try and quieten it up a bit lol. All going well I'll have further info on Saturday after the dyno - but so far this is easily the most responsive RB25 I've been in which is not running a stock turbo.

Wow just stumbled in here - very nice build! Look forward to seeing how it comes out once tuned up etc

Yeah I've kind of always looked at a mixture of the both trying to build a pic, as you indicate - saying there is 300rpm better spool doesn't sound like much but if you have >100kw gain at something like 4000rpm then you REALLY feel it. In more recent times however - especially after experiencing the difference between a GT3076R and a T3/T60-1, and then a GT3582R and an EFR8374.... you can end up with dyno plots which seem comparable both on x and y axis and then get into the car and go uhhh, what has changed between these since the dyno? Beating a dead horse here, but transient response is something dynos really don't seem strong at demonstrating and I still don't quite know the most sensible metric for that. Not sure if you can easily do that. Given that the GT3584RS is a completely different turbo on both sides to any other Garrett unit, I'm really interested to know how it drives - the RS turbine could behave any number of ways... I've kind of wondered why it wasn't used on the Gen2 GTX3582R.

Decent result! Do you have an rpm scale version of the dyno plot? It looks a fair bit laggier than the HTA3586, without an rpm scale I'd have guessed that as more than 400rpm - but either way it clearly is capable of much more power so it's hardly a fail being laggier than something that at one point was probably one of, if not THE most responsive turbo capable of 75lb/min. Any plan to hit the strip with it? How does it drive?

Hitting 15psi by 4000rpm (picked that because the curve to 17psi rolls over a little presumably because of boost control so saying full boost at 4700rpm makes it sound much worse than it is) and making 227kw @ hubs, which is a healthy result - but to be honest, it may be my 16G fanboism coming out but I feel that one of those would happily do that power on 98 too, but with significantly better response. His ball bearing equivalent shows 18psi by 4000rpm, which is more like what I'd expect from the 16G but of course DBB also offers transient response improvements (the old "Dyno doesn't show it" stuff) so that sounds a bit like it'd be quite a nice turbo on an RB20, especially if it's not expensive. Either way, neither turbo are twin scroll - let alone EFRs, so probably a bit off topic here.

I'd agree with this, totally. With turbos, the "curve" of performance improvement versus cost flattens off hard as you get near the peak - often if there is a justifiable budget going for a slightly less expensive turbo setup and spending more money on optimising the other bits around it can make up for it ... depending on budget and what is needed for it. Hell, you probably could have put the correct Holset on your car and if you hadn't experienced any other similar setup you could be forgiven for wondering why people bother why anything else - OR you could be gutted and wish you'd done something flasher, it all is in the eye of the beholder.