Lithium

Will update with the results - the guy who owns it is just doing it for a road car so at this stage (this may change after the dyno) he hasn't been so worried about upgrading the internal actuator etc so the boost curve may turn out to be generally lazy but we'll see how it works out in practice, again I'll share for better or for worse as like always, I am all about trying to find and share data so we end up with less bollux and more facts to help make informed decisions I agree with a certain amount of what you say, and some of that is actually why I push so hard for people to go to singles versus low mount twins - the stock location plumbing etc is a big compromise and costs performance all around, the EFR push I (bearing in mind I can't speak for everyone) give for the EFRs is they are the top 2percentile type thing - I would never say that going from an equivalent GTX3582R to an equivalent EFR8374 setup would be day and night (partly as I think they are the two best options available for that power range), and would probably even question changing from the GTX3582R to an EFR8374 as an upgrade unless someone is looking for every nth and have covered all other aspects.... however, if I were asked about an optimal setup from a clean sheet where someone wants the best of everything and the EFR8374 fits the bill then I would say that would be my preferred choice. When going from -5s to a new setup, then an EFR8374 is going to be a whole different kettle of fish as it combines all of the above My initial thoughts, bearing in mind I haven't experienced those setups you are talking about - specifically: K>I was more impressed with the GTX3076R making 454rwkw on a 2L SR20 (Twinscroll) and its drivability than I am with the 7670 on a RB28. This doesn't sound like apples and apples at all, surprising comment but clearly not the same chassis, gearbox, engine, setup overall and I doubt it's comparable. I know someone who has gone from a TS GTX3076R to a TS EFR7670 on exactly the same car (track/gymkhana WRX STi) and they have raved about it and now push EFRs like nothing else. On the dyno there was only slight gains to be seen, however they were EVERYWHERE in the dyno curve - power came on slightly earlier, made more power per psi at every point, but to drive it was a more significant improvement than he expected after he was slightly disappointed at the apparent gains on the dyno. That was one of the first assessments I heard on the comparison and what triggered me to start warning people YEARS ago that dyno sheets aren't necessarily as flattering to these turbos as what driving them back to back with an equivalent setup is. K> It breathes better up top because well, it is a T4 Twinscroll manifold and external gate as opposed to a stock manifold with a smaller housing. Annnnd it has a bigger turbine wheel.... you won't be the first person who has gone from a GT30 based turbo to an EFR7670 and picked up more power per psi, but others have done it with no other changes. You seem to be choosing to believe the EFR is nothing to do with the gains you're seeing. K> It's a little more responsive because I have a $2000+ stall converter instead of the stock one, etc. ?!?! Not sure if actually really not keen to consider that the turbo may be part of why it's more responsive? You know the transmission affects the way the car drives (sometimes making it feel worse in terms of response, depending on the way its all setup) but has no way of making the turbo respond better? You've decided its the transmission that has improved the response (at least solely) and not the turbo? Again, I haven't experienced the car and the internet is hard to put certain messages across so it's hard to know what you are getting at - but it's hard not to look at those two statements above and go: K> It breathes better up top .... T4 Twinscroll manifold... (bigger turbine wheel and housing).... It's a little more responsive.... You have a setup which has all the things which now add power at the cost of spool, and have something which is more responsive with more power than the best equivalent turbo you could get from Garrett. Were you expecting magic? K> I'm sure the EFR is a better turbo than the equivalents, but I reckon some of the hype is due to updating the supporting mods to go with the turbo. It could also be my auto gearbox, the actual physical time it takes to start locking up could be having an effect, and equalizing both turbos. OK... this one makes sense to me. Again, internet can be hard to read sometimes. This is where I sit, and have actually said it to people considering changing from an equivalent Garrett or Precision - at that point it may not be worth it unless you REALLY need the last bit of improvement and have exhausted any other realistic option. When you are looking at all of the best options, the difference between the top 3 won't be earth shattering - it depends on your OCD and budget, but IMHO there *IS* a difference.

A bit of a mix really, there are definitely people who run it on the street - some have got "over it" and just gone back to pump gas, and there are people running flex fuel. I think there are a few with decent (read: Link G4+ and similar, the G4 isn't so good for it) ECUs with flex fuel sensors so that if they can't get any ethanol/E85 they just continue to enjoy their car on pump gas, but can get E85 for "fun times" if needed. It all comes down to if you can justify the extra expense in fuel system, sensors and tuning to get a flex fuel setup - once that is done it can be pretty sweet.

Here's an EFR7064 in an RB25 engine bay on the stock manifold, all going well I'll have this on the dyno on the 17th June

Ride 'em piggy!

Nope, I've had a 50trim T3/T04E on the stock manifold a hub dyno with a stock RB20 and it was similar to the GTX on that plot... unless a VERY fast sweep was selected it seems rather laggy for what it is.

Just to confirm, are these the Kelford split duration cams? And upgrading from a set of Tomeis? Or something different? Cheers.

Realistically if there is no accurate RPM configuration set up on the dyno software then there is no reasonable way of establishing a torque figure which is representative of what the engine is actually making - the torque that the dyno reads, particularly a rolling road dyno... has everything to do with wheel vs roller speed and then is further affected by transmission gearing. The only way you can scale it sensibly really is by using the final power figures and calculating torque from the actual engine rpm.

I clearly misintepreted what you meant when you said " Has anyone got a compressor map for the HTA3582?" OK, I feel like I am reasonably switched on with engine/turbo dynamics but I keep seeing these "from the matchbot I should have xxpsi by yyrpm" comments and have no idea where people are getting that from - I feel like there isn't enough information available to do that, though I know there is always something to learn so I'll ask - how are you estimating that spool?

Mainly customer service, a little dubious of their custom cores as a lot of people had issues with EVO boltons becoming smokey (not a issue for you) and I'd still favour an HTA/HTZ3076 over the likes of a GTX3076R/PT5558 every time. Will check PM when I have another bit of time spare.

There are no compressor maps for the FP or Precision turbos. I've lost a fair bit of love for FP over time, I know a few people who have been a bit burned by their "out of the USA" customer service - though their compressor wheels are pretty sweet. In saying that, the Garrett GTX3582R is a really good thing... even while I had more love for FP I'd have to say that the HTA3586 has no answer to the GTX3582R which matches or betters it in both flow and response. The GTX3582R is a really good thing, and the Gen2 GTX3582R is even better again if more flow for a bit less response. I'd not bother with the PT6262, personally but the EFR8374 is still from my experience so far a league above all of the above. All comes down to what you want so spend, what manifolding etc you will be doing. If you want single scroll then I'd be going the GTX3582R. I've you're going to spend the extra to get the best then I'd go EFR.

Right!! This is much more helpful I am assuming this is on E85? In my opinion going for a 9180 and hoping to make any decent use of in on a stock exhaust manifold is crazy. Even with an S362/8374 it's not what I'd personally recommend. I think that manifold will cause you issues way before you get into "should a 9180 be worth considering" territory - if you really want to put an EFR on the stock exhaust manifold, then the .83a/r T3 EFR8374 seems like the one.

Ok so the key question is what are your power targets, and if they are fuzzy do you have a minimum spool requirement? You really are not giving useful information to work with, don't expect too much useful input until you do

Or twin EFR7163s because someone needs to be a guinea pig The fact he asked "too big" suggests he hopes for it to still be usable to some degree. Having said that, again it depends on what you can live with. I've done a reasonable amount of driving with a stock stroke R32 GT-R with a T51R SPL and I could live with it as a weekend car, even if I'd still rather be able to have it stand up by 4000rpm. Or 5000rpm. Or even really anything under 6000 lol

Ohh it's that guy! Compared to a GTX4294R it'd be a lovely drive It should make just over 1000hp @ crank on E85 with an EFR9180 without overspeeding it IMHO, but definitely worth investing in a turbine speed sensor if you're going to push it. I'd actually consider an EFR9174 with a 1.45a/r housing and be slightly restrained with cams (ie, stay away from near 280s) at this point - @Full-Race Geoff? Any thoughts?

As Piggaz alluded to, "is it too big" is all relative. For 99% of people the 9180 is a really big turbo for a stock displacement RB26, but if you are used to big turbo life or looking for a lot of power in general then it's clearly not. Which Borg Warner plain bearing turbo are you running? If you have something like an S366 or possibly even an S362 then there is a reasonable chance it'll be more fun to drive than it is currently in every which way - but if you aren't making enough or aiming for enough power to justify it then you may as well go for the 8374 and have a whole different car. Please clarify what you have and what you are aiming for

I was about to bring this up in the RB20 thread and then realised this was you. Nice!

Pay more attention in my group on Facebook sir. There was a discussion about the potential change, then on a suitable EFR, then dyno results etc

I hope all your turbos fail

I put all the spec in the video, it's a 2.8

Turns out Full-Race wanted to share this clip so made an effort and got a higher res version of the 9180 R32 GT-R at Hampton downs, in case people wanted to see it with more than 48 pixels:

Just to clarify - and sorry if this is kind of OT, when you say "1000hp" I'm assuming you mean at the fly wheel? A GTX4294R sits in a weird place between being arguably quite a bit too small for 1000hp @ wheels on a Dyno Dynamics, and there being much smaller/more responsive turbos that would go past that power at the crank as well. I'm assuming that the actual aim is to run to the limit of the GTX4294R?

I know they got trashed a bit above but I have no problem with them My comment was not bagging them at all, actually complimenting them - just where there are EFR equivalents I'd rather the EFR from the experiences I've had so far.... saying they aren't as good as the best isn't the worst burn one could give!

Yeah, Precision have things quite nicely stitched up for if you want over 600kw @ wheels and not too worried about how the car takes off under 5000rpm... that doesn't seem to be the target here though Looking forward to seeing exactly how urgent this setup ends up, should be rather quite fun to punt around!

Lol you came into a thread where everyone is looking forward to an EFR result, and told him to go Precision - what are the odds? Having Pete swap from a 6266 to an EFR8374 and seeing the results first hand while this build has been playing out probably won't have raised many doubts about choices here