Kkr And Monsta Turbos

[benhpi]

A bit of an update for those who are interested in the KKR480 and how it works on an RB25.

The graph below is for an internally stock R33 (normal head gasket too) with 550cc injectors, pump, Power FC, FMIC and 3-inch exhaust with an aftermarket cat. The owner fitted the turbo himself with a KKR dump pipe. The car was tuned by CRD, making 263kW on their dyno and a week later ran on the Mainline dyno at the Auto Salon, making 261kW. This is the sort of power and response most people are getting, with around 19psi boost.

[paulr33]

it comes on at 4200rpm and its on from there.

sounds a bit too laggy for the power its making.

a standard hiflow should make equiv power and be more progressive and responsive

looks to be a lag lag lag, peak, wheelspin, peak type turbo

[R31Nismoid]

Still doesnt explain how one car makes 260rwkw @ 19psi the same turbo using 16psi makes 300rwkw+

So which result are you backing up Ben? CRD or the other one?

There is a large variation in the results for an identical item

[GT-PASSAGE]

A bit of an update for those who are interested in the KKR480 and how it works on an RB25.

The graph below is for an internally stock R33 (normal head gasket too) with 550cc injectors, pump, Power FC, FMIC and 3-inch exhaust with an aftermarket cat. The owner fitted the turbo himself with a KKR dump pipe. The car was tuned by CRD, making 263kW on their dyno and a week later ran on the Mainline dyno at the Auto Salon, making 261kW. This is the sort of power and response most people are getting, with around 19psi boost.

The passage gt has a Fresh rebuild of a stock RB25DET, metal head gasket, 3inch exhaust from turbo with no CAT, 720cc injectors Q45 AFM, Grande FMIC, Power FC. 550+hp fuel pump Full R33 drivetrain with Modded Diff and its 303.9kws.

294kws with 550cc ish injectors (so I'm told). But still with all the above mods.

It looks all in the same ball park considering the difference in mods.

***Nismoid.. Insert comment here.. (This is where you don't admit your wrong and that its a laggy POS and that your car is sooooo much faster)***

G.

[LBR33]

Still doesnt explain how one car makes 260rwkw @ 19psi the same turbo using 16psi makes 300rwkw+

So which result are you backing up Ben? CRD or the other one?

There is a large variation in the results for an identical item

Thats because the 260kw figure is real

[warpz0r]

Im going to put a KKr480 onto my rb30DET

when do you think i should start boosting and reach full boost?

[R31Nismoid]

The passage gt has a Fresh rebuild of a stock RB25DET, metal head gasket, 3inch exhaust from turbo with no CAT, 720cc injectors Q45 AFM, Grande FMIC, Power FC. 550+hp fuel pump Full R33 drivetrain with Modded Diff and its 303.9kws.

294kws with 550cc ish injectors (so I'm told). But still with all the above mods.

It looks all in the same ball park considering the difference in mods.

***Nismoid.. Insert comment here.. (This is where you don't admit your wrong and that its a laggy POS and that your car is sooooo much faster)***

G.

Sorry i dont get what this post is meant to mean?

Are you talking about your car or the one that Benhpi has provided graphs for?

There is no mention of the Benhpi car making 294rwkw anywhere in his post

I would think he would mention it if it were the case

[GT-PASSAGE]

Sorry i dont get what this post is meant to mean?

Are you talking about your car or the one that Benhpi has provided graphs for?

There is no mention of the Benhpi car making 294rwkw anywhere in his post

I would think he would mention it if it were the case

I thought you would have remembered our 6week debate? My fault...294kws was what the passage made with the smaller injectors but all the same mods.

G.

[R31Nismoid]

So your car?

I do remember putting the question to benhpi about the large variance in results. If your not commenting on his car... then i dont get it.

Anyway, its not in the same ballpark at all Gary, infact over 40rwkw and 3-4psi is a massive variation.

Injectors cant be attributed to that difference.

I think i might quote myself as you missed my post

Still doesnt explain how one car makes 260rwkw @ 19psi the same turbo using 16psi makes 300rwkw+

So which result are you backing up Ben? CRD or the other one?

There is a large variation in the results for an identical item

[GT-PASSAGE]

So your car?

I do remember putting the question to benhpi about the large variance in results. If your not commenting on his car... then i dont get it.

Anyway, its not in the same ballpark at all Gary, infact over 40rwkw and 3-4psi is a massive variation.

Injectors cant be attributed to that difference.

I think i might quote myself as you missed my post

3-4psi is a big difference, I listed a few differences other then Injectors including a 3inch turbo back zorst with no Cat to mention a few. I'll spare you the self quote but I think you know this will make a difference in power output.

To sum it.

Benhpi listed a car making 260kws and the Passage has made 294, 297, with 550cc injectors but much more mods(Fresh rebuild, metal head gasket, 3inch exhaust from turbo with no CAT, 550+hp fuel pump Full R33 drivetrain with Modded Diff) thats where I was going with "Ball Park".

2 dyno's, 2 different companies both over 300kws.

I raise and call?

You imply that its "fudged" but remember when I offered you to put money on it? And even at a dyno of your choice you didn't won't anything to do with it. So its either "fudged" or its not. I'm standing behind mine and you are on the fence.

G

[teejay]

Heres the part your all missing

Ben Ellis = Mr Hpi

HPI = Only publication pushing / promoting these turbos

Otomotto = Ben Ellis's

Starting to see a connection ppl?

They are not a very good turbo at all. They might be reliable, but they certainly arnt responsive.

Rather a GT30 any day.

[paulr33]

amen

[R31Nismoid]

3-4psi is a big difference, I listed a few differences other then Injectors including a 3inch turbo back zorst with no Cat to mention a few. I'll spare you the self quote but I think you know this will make a difference in power output.

To sum it.

Benhpi listed a car making 260kws and the Passage has made 294, 297, with 550cc injectors but much more mods(Fresh rebuild, metal head gasket, 3inch exhaust from turbo with no CAT, 550+hp fuel pump Full R33 drivetrain with Modded Diff) thats where I was going with "Ball Park".

I totally agree with you. 4psi is a big difference.

However, to sum up the differences you claim... and quite simply, they make little to no difference.

Lets go through them shall we?

1) Injectors will not increase power.

550cc can flow enough for 300rwkw, so the injectors as a "different" mod are discounted straight awat

2) Head gasket, you have a thicker one that the benhpi car...

Again, this is a mod that is not going to increase power at all. It will allow you to run more boost without detonation to make more power...

But in your case you are running less boost - 16psi so that makes no sense

3) 3" exhaust. Benhpi & your car are both running a 3" exhaust. So thats discounted aswell

4) Drivetrain - another useless fact. The car benhpi is talking about is an R33 GTS-t.

So your car has R33 runinng gear, so does the comparo car... So i cant see that making a difference

5) Benhpi car is also running an upgrade fuel pump the same as you car.

Another mod discounted

There are a lot of things here that you are claiming are aiding in the "40rwkw with 3-4psi less" difference that quite simply have little to do with outright power as they are supporting mods that are the same across 2 cars.

They might not be identical brand names, but the parts are upgraded non the less.

The only difference that can affect power is the CAT... you dont have one.

But its not a "40rwkw with 3-4psi less"difference as the Benhpi car no doubt is using a hi-flow cat of some description aswell (he mentioned a different one)

A fresh motor maybe a minimal increase... but benhpi would surely inform us if his test car had a tired motor.

So i'll trust that both cars motors are near enough the same condition

Could you please provide any extra mods apart from the above that i have missed?

Maybe they are whats helping you make the power? Something you have forgotten like a set of cams?

This is a good thread and lots of information contained in it. So if you could further add any other mods which are aiding your much better power figure that would be good

TJ - i agree.

Although i already knew the connections with otomoto/hpi/ben etc.

[P-hizzel]

hey all,

first off. remember me R31Nismoid?? yeah thats right,

second, you know what i love about the internet and internet forums?

everyone is a f**king professional, now i`m not going to sit here and tell you

all i know everything about turbos, but i will tell you the i have been in the passage

and f**k me it moves, gary and john have found a setup that works for cheap

and the rest of you are just pissed off, GET OVER IT,

third. R31Nismoid from both arguments on this forum and the r31 forum you have never

show a dyno sheet for you apparent "369rwkw" and everytime there is an offer for you

to come see the car you back down, WHY IS THAT... are you scared??

i think you need to stop criticizing ppls setups and idea, and actually say something

usefull, you are not the be all and end all of performance modifaction and engineering.....

paulr33 you should take note here aswell,

paulr33 - plotting a graph "too much free time with paintbrush" isn`t hard, hell if you want

i can tell what key you have to push on a dyno dynamics computer to change the grid, power scale,

rpm scale, a/f ratio, x-factor (that the one that changes the correction factor) and other verious

readings. your proving nothing by post "potted" graphs

R31Nismoid good for you, your a Moderator on sau so ban me if you want but that

just prove the fact that your scared of being provin a loser/wanker/liar/wrong etc.....

the only "good information" here is propaganda and ppl`s opinions,

i do have one question, if the bp is a measurement of ambiant air pressure/density, what happens to this

figure when it is compressed by a turbo??

[teejay]

]second, you know what i love about the internet and internet forums?

everyone is a f**king professional, now i`m not going to sit here and tell you

all i know everything about turbos, but i will tell you the i have been in the passage

and f**k me it moves, gary and john have found a setup that works for cheap

and the rest of you are just pissed off, GET OVER IT,

"it moves" compared to what?

its so laggy it quite likely feels like it rocket when it finally hits boost.. you know the typical lightswitch turbo set up, nothing to everything.

What time has it done?

[R31Nismoid]

i have been in the passage and f**k me it moves

Thanks for that technically informative post p-hizzel.

I really appreciate your opinion there.

It has really cleared up a lot of questions i have about this turbo and the setup by the fact that it "f'ing moves"

Why would i ban you? Although your post is pretty much technically pointless... its almost off-topic.

Im not criticising, im actually trying to get to the bottom of the results as they are totally different on virtually identical cars.

I've had a number of PM's over this thread so obviously people are watching for the answers as much as i am.

If it makes you feel better i'll get in touch with XTC and get a copy of the graph for you from AutoSalon last year. Hell... i'll even go down to RPM and get the other graph aswell.

Send me a PM with your e-mail and i'll gladly send it on in a few weeks when i get them both.

Can we get back to the technical side of the discussion now?

[benhpi]

Still doesnt explain how one car makes 260rwkw @ 19psi the same turbo using 16psi makes 300rwkw+

So which result are you backing up Ben? CRD or the other one?

There is a large variation in the results for an identical item

Actually the car which recorded 242kW (HPI34T) has since been retuned by Advan and now makes 260.7kW at 19psi. Since my own car also makes 256kW at similar boost with lower compression (RB24 with Tomei pistons) I figure 260kW at the wheels is a realistic expectation for the KKR-480 on an RB25DET. This was all I wanted to get across with my update, but it seems people are getting very emotional about the subject.

[Birnie]

How does the dump pipe attatch?

Seems to be the round pipe with a clamp that gets the main exhaust but i can't see where the waste-gated gasses go?

[osiris23]

This topic is mainly about the 480 and from what ive read just seems to be a dyno turbo and to laggy for normal street use. What are peoples oppions about the 430? For $650 it if it is a direct bolt up could be a good upgrade for say 220rwkw or so?

In the first page someone is saying about all the modifcations which need to be done for the 480. is it the same as the 430 does anyone know?

[P-hizzel]

its good to see you read all the way to the bottom of my post r31nismoid, i know its sorta off topic for this section but can you answer that question for me??