Turning A 78 C210 Into Track Only Car

[NISMO]

Hi guys,

after serving me for 3 years of punisihing trips to the train station, I am now considering turning my C210 into a track only car.

Everything is completely stock at the moment.

The plan is to strip everything bar the drivers seat and dash from the inside, which will make it nice and lite.

What I want to know is, what do people recommend around the rest of the car, engine, suspension gearbox etc, and how much do you think I'm looking at price wise. Not looking to set lap records, just have a hole heap of fun, in something that will be a little different out on the track. Would like to keep the engine a Nissan as well.

PS - It's an auto atm, so will need to convert to manual.

any info appreciated.

Bobby

[66 skyline gt]

rb turbs, matey the only way to go... ive done it to my old skool skylineand you can pick up rb20det pacakge deals cheap these days ( like 2 grand), which will have most of the stuff

[d0p3y]

FJ20T would be an awesome engine to put into that to keep the old school juices flowing, but theyre getting rare now.

Other than that, SR20DET might be a good one to look at due to the fact they're cheap and there's heaps of cheap hot bits for them too - or if you could stretch the budget RB25DET would provide plenty of torque.

[floody]

L28 and turbo LD cranked 3.1l NA L28

I'm all for keeping something resembling the original motor...

[blind_elk]

First, make it stop - Z31 4-stud vented rotors. You'll need an adaptor to mount the appropriate calipers. Z31 have 100mm mounting spacing, which is the same as the 4-spots from R32.

Then make it handle - decent shocks, HD springs, swaybars.

THEN make it go. Zoom did a RB20DET conversion many moons ago. You could try a L20ET, but they are probably like rocking horse poo, and even a L28ET is probably hard to find. What about the VQ20ET (?) - 2 litre V6 turbo. Or a VH41 - might be a bit heavy, but torque to burn. Or stroked L28 and 3 Webers.

[warps]

Just remember that one day you might get bored of running around a race track trying to beat your own lap record, and actually want to compete in a race series. Consider the rules, regs and classes available to you. (I know you don't want to break lap records, but you don't want to finish dead last in your category either). Most engine conversions will mean you have to run in sports sedans.

That said, pesonally I'd keep it L, you can get heaps of cheap power out of an NA L6, (better bang for buck than an RB conversion if you know who to talk to). You don't need a turbo to go fast.

Also, I wouldn't touch anything else until I had a decent roll cage, race seat and harness in there. Then I'd get the brakes sorted out (can start with upgraded pads on standard brakes) and then handling. All of the above items will give you a big improvement over stock, and will let yuou learn how to drive the thing.

You can get reasonable stopping power from Landcruiser brake calipers (bolt on) and reasonable discs (something like Honda Legend, or some Peugeots). Set up, that brake upgrade should only cost a few hundred $$. No need to go for bling 300mm discs with the alloy 4 spots. Yes, they're good but will cost you much more.

Once you've got something that stops and handles, and won't kill you if you have an off, then you can start looking at increasing power.

[NISMO]

Thanks Guys,

Really appreciate all the info. If I go turbo, I'm thinking RB. I know the SR20's are a better motor than the RB20, but in a car this lite, I don't think I'll need a 400kw SR20 motor to get the job done.

Warps, was thinking the same over the weekend. I think the first step will be to get some info on what categories of racing are available for the car, and then have look at which avenue to go down. Personally I'd prefer a screaming NA over the turbo.

(better bang for buck than an RB conversion if you know who to talk to). You don't need a turbo to go fast.

would love some more info. The L26 in at the moment I imagine would need a complete overhaul.

Thanks again guys.

[floody]

Warps, was thinking the same over the weekend. I think the first step will be to get some info on what categories of racing are available for the car, and then have look at which avenue to go down. Personally I'd prefer a screaming NA over the turbo.

Well, go the modded L28 route then, stroker if you want big power...Can't find a better sounding motor, haha.

[racsov500]

Id absoloutely love to do something similar, but ive been under the impression that the c210s are a bit of an underdog because there heavier compared to the more popular models

[aarc240]

Assuming you have a 4-door auto, you will start with a nominal 1210kg car. Swap to manual gives 1205kg.

Not as heavy as many people think (Australian spec 240z is 1030kg, C110 is 1130kg)

Before getting too far into it, do check out classes and types of events.

Regularity class events give all the opportunity most people want unless they REALLY want to be the next Craig Lowndes.

Also keep in mind that in two years this car is eligible for classic competition, including road events.

A combination of regularity, navigational rallies and events like Duttons, Classic Adelaide etc is a real blast.

Much more fun to be able to drive hard legally on roads you would usually get booked for.

I wouldn't put in a full cage, as desirable as it may be as that would take the car off the road (illegal on the street most states).

A good roll bar with rear braces, remove the rear seat, add good anchorages for street legal (ADR compliant) full harness belts both sides.

DON'T change the class of car to two seat just 'cause of the belts - if ever challenged by a cop show him (politely) the lap/sash belt mounts and explain that when not being used or prepared for comp the rear seat goes back in as do all the standard seat belts, the harnesses come out. Yeah, right!

Anything other than an L24 is going to class the car as a modified, and if not an L6 then it's Sports Sedan with attendant $$$$

OK, a 4-door is somewhat less than attractive but it's a good place to start.

Get it working well with good brakes, decent suspension and a hot L28.

You really don't need a stroker. Big $$. A good triple Weber L28 will fry any tires you care to run including R class.

Stick to no less than 5 inch 125mm ground clearance and if using it on road add 3mm minimum aluminium skid plates under engine and gearbox.

Learn to use it to it's best, find out what sort of competition you really like.

If you want to continue after a couple of years, hunt down a hardtop.

Switch everything to it (same wheelbase and mechanically identical) and you can run something unusual without spending a fortune.

If you want something different, the C210 Skyline taillights bolt straight in, so does the grille and front trim.

It won't be as quick as a 240z but it will be a lot easier to live with. Not as hard to drive quickly either!

[aarc240]

Forgot this!

If you just concentrate on upgrading the brakes and suspension first, even the auto will do for now.

Initially just good pads and linings, decent gas dampers, drop it about 35mm with stiffer springs and some decent stiffer sway bars.

Depending on whether you can do the work or all done for you somewhere from $800 to $1500 or more.

That will allow you to try out club regularity track events and road rallies (none of which require even a roll bar!)

Don't think the auto is dumb - we've had a young guy take a stock auto R31 up Collingrove hillclimb in 32 seconds. Lotus Cortinas, R2000 Excorts etc are struggling to get under 34 seconds!

Later you want 270mm by 20mm vented discs on front (Peugeot 504 with 5mm spacers) and Toyota RN60/YN60 '88 four spot calipers.

I've seen R30 rear discs conversions, also 280zx but on a C210 can't comment. Not too hard on a C110 but there are differences.

After that, well the sky is the limit (and the wallet).

Above all, find a CAMS affiliated club you like, caters for the event types you are interested in and JOIN. The support and friendship is worth gold.

[coupe72001]

Hi,

I recently picked up a C210 sedan, that was being driven on the street, before being entered in its first rally and subsequently rolled over (some 20 mins later), before being sold to me as a wreck.

Legality and performance aside, the car was set up as follows:

- Race seats, full cage and harnesses

- 200sx (sr20???) 5spd internals housed inside the original gearbox externals

- Big brakes - Disks all round. 4 spots and ventilated disks on the front

- R180 LSD diff

- 15", lightweight, 2-piece rally wheels, fancy off-road tyres.

- Koni adjustable shocks, springs and adjustable suspension set-up (camber etc)

and the engine... wait for it...

the original L24 with flat-top pistons, twin SU's, a cam grind, elect. ignition, head-work and extractors.

Clearly the previous owner felt the drivetrain etc. was a bigger priority than a really trick engine. I plan to swap some of the good stuff over to my (fairly stock) C210. The rest goes on ebay... or something. Any advice thrown my way will also be greatly appreciated.

Drew

[racsov500]

Konis for a C210.. are the FOR a c210 of for another model that matches?

can you get some more pics of that one, a track only c210 is a rare site and a fantastic one

[aarc240]

coupe72001 (Drew), there shouldn't be too much left over!

Sounds like you've won yourself a pretty good start at someone elses expense.

I'd just swap as much as I reasonably could to start with, see how it works for you and then start refining.

Be careful if you sell the seats and harnesses - make sure that your ad clearly states they came from a rolled rally car so no S.O.B. can try legal action later.

racsov500

Do some digging via the Internet.

Konis can be had for just about anything, particularly competition stuff. Koni USA is a good site for data.

Same applies to Bilstein, they don't list parts for C110 or C210 but the competition range includes units of suitable dimensions.

With struts the trick is to look for a cartridge with the right body diameter, adequate travel compared to your originals and a body length either the same as your originals or shorter. If shorter just add a suitable length piece of steel tube below the cartridge so that the whole assembly locks down tight on re-assembly.

Natyrally you want units that fit your strut tops too!

With seperate dampers you might have to move one or both mounts to accomodate a different body length but that would be unusual.

[coupe72001]

Art, thanks for the heads up regarding the seats. Im pretty excited about the whole project. Racsov, the suspension work was done by the Nissco 1600 workshop in Bayswater Nth Vic, but the reciept doesn't specify which model the Konis were intended for.

Cheers

[lukeskyline]

excellent thread guys

im looking at doing a street-going rally car, suitable as a weekend machine and possibly low level comp rallying car

what sort of power can 1 reasonably expect from a worked NA L28 or L24 for that matter? Does the EFI gear/heads off an R30 bolt up to these?

time for dumber questions...are these standard as an IRS rear in australian models or live axle?

[the big JC]

excellent thread guys

im looking at doing a street-going rally car, suitable as a weekend machine and possibly low level comp rallying car

what sort of power can 1 reasonably expect from a worked NA L28 or L24 for that matter? Does the EFI gear/heads off an R30 bolt up to these?

time for dumber questions...are these standard as an IRS rear in australian models or live axle?

The R30's are independent rear end stock. If you want a good rally setup go a L28 and just mod it

[aarc240]

All Australian delivered C110 and C210 cars are IRS so it won't matter too much which you start with.

I'm pretty sure all R30's were too so the only consideration is they got heavier as they came out.

C110 is around 1130kg, C210 around 1205kg and I'm led to believe R30's are close to 1300kg.

Any of them will perform well as a weekend warrior, particularly with a warm L28.

With an L28:

get the head cleaned up in the ports, fit 38mm 21-4N stainless exhaust valves on nickel steel seats (ULP compatible for good life)

swap to a mild street cam (around 265 degree at 1.2mm lift is good)

add a 240Z twin carb setup and a good 65mm exhaust after the stock manifold

have the distributor overhauled and fit a good high energy ignition

It will be good for around 180 hp at 6000 rpm, will still give reasonable economy and won't require an R200 rear end.

If you want more and don't mind spending money to get it:

use a 275 degree at 1.2mm lift cam

fit triple 45 Webers and a cold air airbox intake filter system with the largest filter & casing you can squeeze in

install headers & the good 65mm exhaust

install a 4.1 or 4.3 R200 limited slip diff

200 plus hp at the same revs, a narrower power band (about 3500 to 6500)

around 235 hp can be had from the same combo by installing flat top pistons and running 98 octane fuel

Of course all the good practices in build must be followed to get the power and keep it all together.

These are still not extreme motors and will last well when built right.

Heads & EFI:

Look for the casting id on the lower edge of the head between 1st & 2nd cylinder spark plugs.

E88 is reasonably common from 240Z & early 260Z

N42 is common from late 260Z, most 280ZX (may or may not be drilled for EFI intake)

these two are basically the same with similar chambers and ports, N42 usually has the larger valves.

Stock 280ZX EFI - don't bother on anything more than a warm L26.

It wasn't a performance item, it was a pollution solution.

Can be improved with considerable effort and expense to work very well indeed.

Head and EFI from an R30 - don't waste your time or money. The head has the small valves (260/280 size valves hit the cylinder walls on a L24 which an R30 has) and the injection is a pollution solution.

Of course if you are going to fit bigger & better valves anyway as well as porting the head then an N42 from a well looked after R30 is a good basis!

btw, you can run carbs & manifold on an EFI head - both sets of bolt holes were drilled/tapped by Nissan.

Edited September 13, 2006 by aarc240

[lukeskyline]

WOW thanks for that I know a heap more than i did before now thanks to you

An L28 looks definety like the way to go, plenty of options by the look of it, now ive just gotta find a motor and a car to put it in

I've got questions about a c110 but i wont hijack the thread...

[racsov500]

aarc240, with a c210 what gearbox would you use? are all l series manual boxes interchangable?

what front suspension is interchangeable?