Gym And Supplement Discussion

[TTT]

This is what I'm going to be doing the second half of this year.

Replace Bench with OHP. I've got nothing to lose.

[Mangune]

Just putting it out there but also with improving shoulder strength. Would working on your tricep strength help improve your bench?

[Birds]

Just putting it out there but also with improving shoulder strength. Would working on your tricep strength help improve your bench?

Yes, as is the point of assistance/isolation exercises like tricep extensions, pushdowns, close grip bench.

It's a good idea to analyse your bench movement and work out where you have weakness, then target those areas with assistance exercises.

[rev210]

Just putting it out there but also with improving shoulder strength. Would working on your tricep strength help improve your bench?

Compound movements do this enough. Overhead press uses the tricep. At your body weight level , the tricep will need to be plenty strong.

This also goes for grip/back strength as well. At the extreme end of bench press (competitively heavy) you can imagine requiring some focus on weaker muscles (I can't really speak to that). But, I would still argue variations of compound movements that place a greater emphasis on said weaker area are a better idea.

I don't do tricep isolation excersises . In the interest of science I can try one people use and let you know what I can do on it, my guess( at the risk of sounding a little over confident) it will be more than people who advocate isolation work .Because the tricep is also a muscle which needs strong support attachments from what I understand. So even to get 'stronger' at an isolation movement is to do compound ones. I could be wrong , someone want to suggest an excersise I can try?

Edited March 12, 2013 by rev210

[jangles]

What Rev said.

Doing Bench will improve your Bench. Squats will improve squats, deads will improve deads, military for military.

I can't do wide grip pull ups, because I don't do them. Should I? Maybe, who knows. All my main lifts still progress.

Support movements are just that. Don't major in the minors.

[rev210]

I can't do wide grip pull ups, because I don't do them. Should I? Maybe, who knows.

I would suggest that if whether or not you do pullups as the development excersise for your back , not being able to do one says you have some potential to increase stabilising strength for things like your bench press. It will directly lead to lifting more , if you are keen to have some increases or at a faster rate. Compound support movements are very important.

So I would argue that support movements (like pullups- back strength) are critical but, perhaps you mean't isolation? In which case I totally agree with you...ha ha..

Edited March 12, 2013 by rev210

[Birds]

I agree with you rev, that doing compounds will make you stronger at the isolation exercises. I do argue, however, that isolation can benefit the compounds too, as it did/does for me. Though this may only happen if you have imbalance/weakness/bias somewhere in your technique/muscles. And it is true, one could argue that simply doing more bench, for example, will improve your bench in the same or a better way. I also agree that other compound movements targeting the same muscles are better for assistance than isolation.

Difficult to compare results person to person, due to strength differences, so maybe a personal test is in order, in the interest of science? Overhead tricep extensions after shoulder day? Would be interested to know what, if any effect they have on you...could even be negative, lol.

Regardless, isolation exercises have their place in crafting body shape, so if not for improving a compound movement, then balancing out the appearance

[Trozzle]

Personally I f**king hate isolation movements like tricep/bicep, but only really because I save them for the end of my session and by that time I give no farks and want to leave haha

[jangles]

I would suggest that if whether or not you do pullups as the development excersise for your back , not being able to do one says you have some potential to increase stabilising strength for things like your bench press. It will directly lead to lifting more , if you are keen to have some increases or at a faster rate. Compound support movements are very important.

So I would argue that support movements (like pullups- back strength) are critical but, perhaps you mean't isolation? In which case I totally agree with you...ha ha..

I only used it for example of what I was saying. I know it's a compound not isolation.

I can do them, tried last night for the first time. just not as proficient in them as close grip chins for example, as I don't do them regularly.

none of the lifts I care about have stalled.

Edited March 12, 2013 by jangles

[Mangune]

Good points on boths sides, for triceps you could try reverse tricep pushdown. I found that helped me personally. My bench was and still is terrible compared to my other lifts. I put it away for 3 weeks (doing bench press) concentrated on the isolation of the exercise. Went from 50kg to 70kg. Still not big number but improved.

On another note its back day today. Getting ready, going to try and better my pb of 170kg DL. Failed last week on 175kg only got half way.

[jangles]

Do dips

[NickR33]

dips are awesome

[NickR33]

with Sakata rice crackers

[NickR33]

but seriously... dips are awesome for tricep strength

[-FIGJAM-]

got a question which flows on from my rant in another thread.

how much of a difference does steroids and the likes do to the end picture?

obviously I know they help you get bigger faster, either water weight or other.

I have been told that people on them have been able to train harder for longer and even add extra sessions in their days, is this true or bs?

People on them get heaps stronger either quicker or whilst on?

One person I know who got on one cycle said his appetite exploded and was eating heaps more, is that normal?

Lastly, relating to the entire pre, during and post cylce, do they help negate the need for a good clean diet? Have seen so many who always seem to have raging 6 packs does gear make that kind of look easier to achieve and maintain?

Noob questions I know, but I am interested in just how much they help.

Not going to take them as I can't with my heart, this is purely a question and would prefer actual answers if possible

[Birds]

Look back through this section, there's an interesting read that someone (think it might have been that squat dodger, TTT) posted...written by a cyclist who got on roids for a bit. Gave a really good insight into what they do and what he experienced, which you could pretty easily translate to weight training.

[rev210]

Lastly, relating to the entire pre, during and post cylce, do they help negate the need for a good clean diet? Have seen so many who always seem to have raging 6 packs does gear make that kind of look easier to achieve and maintain?

No and No. Clean diet is just that 'clean'. Eat crap and grow man boobs works on or off gear.

Getting ripped isn't easy you have to work hard at it. The process of getting lean is the same on or off gear.

Most people think about roids as an 'easy ' way to become freakishly lean or huge .Faster yes but, not easy. the gear inflates the genetic potential by providing a resource you can't make enough of to be in that state. However, huge effort is still required to get near the genetic limits ,where roids offer more.

[Mitcho_7]

If you are considering doing a cycle, make sure you do plenty of research to make sure you do it right. Definently don't wanna mess up your endocrine system!

[jangles]

Google it. You'll get enough info.

They have to train just as hard, if not harder.

Otherwise they end up like the huge fat big guys that weigh 100-120 and bench 100 thinking they are massive and wear track pants to hide their pins.

[TM7GTR]

got a question which flows on from my rant in another thread.

how much of a difference does steroids and the likes do to the end picture?

obviously I know they help you get bigger faster, either water weight or other.

I have been told that people on them have been able to train harder for longer and even add extra sessions in their days, is this true or bs?

People on them get heaps stronger either quicker or whilst on?

One person I know who got on one cycle said his appetite exploded and was eating heaps more, is that normal?

Lastly, relating to the entire pre, during and post cylce, do they help negate the need for a good clean diet? Have seen so many who always seem to have raging 6 packs does gear make that kind of look easier to achieve and maintain?

Noob questions I know, but I am interested in just how much they help.

Not going to take them as I can't with my heart, this is purely a question and would prefer actual answers if possible

1. A huge difference if used properly

2. You feel far more energised while on them, so yes you can train harder for longer. You can also add extra sessions due to the fact that AAS's work by increasing the rate of recovery in your body. This is usually not recommended though, as injuries are easily obtained if you overdo it (due to the fact that fatigue signs are harder to perceive)

3. Strength gains are quick and somewhat permanent if you continue to train heavy after AAS usage (there is a noticeable drop-off post cycle though)

4. Definitely. Appetite just about doubles

5. Not at all. Most educated AAS users (usually the guys with 6 packs as you're referring to) are just as serious, if not more serious about their diet than the rest of us, due to the fact that the better their diet is on cycle, the cleaner their gains will be (although this obviously doesn't differ in common sense whether using AAS's or not.)