Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Trozzle]

Just because it works for you, does not mean it will work for me. End of discussion, since this has gone from offerings of advice/assistance to a blind rant of "I'm right you're wrong and my methods are final". I'm not saying what you're suggesting wouldn't work. Not suggesting that at all. What I am saying is that measuring something so you KNOW you're getting it right is much better than guesswork.

You wouldn't build an extension for your house by eye, would you? Of course not. You'd have the plans ready to go, with all materials and their respective measurements planned out beforehand, so you know that when you put it all together you won't be missing any nails along the way or find that the piece of timber you just cut is 20mm short thanks to judging it by feel. This is exactly what you're disputing and trying to tell us is the wrong way to do it.

[No Crust Racing]

For what it's worth, I just make "smart"ish eating choices and let my eyes tell me the rest, so my method is probably more like Birds, but I do not have the same infatuation with BF % as some of the guys you see around as I'm not a body builder/professional model/quite that vain/already in a long term relationship/whatever other reason people have.

My goals are squat more, dead more, improve leg/back/upper body strength imbalances and get my ankle better. Whether I'm 5% or 30% bf really makes SFA difference to those goals.

If I had a really specific goal or a special dietary requirement/intolerance, I'd be far more invested in the dietary side of thing as some of you guys here are.

Side bar, I'm getting low on my supp so when I'm out I'll order a KG of that BN WPC and report back for anyone else interested.

[Trozzle]

I enjoy eating too much, so I really have to decide between enjoying food while counting calories to stay under goal amount, or deal with eating bland shit so I know I won't over eat haha

[No Crust Racing]

I hear ya, god damn I love eating. I just enjoy the process as weird as that sounds.

I'm gonna go home and eat some cheese tonight, there's a fresh wheel in the fridge!

[L33SH]

I'm gonna go home and eat some cheese tonight, there's a fresh wheel in the fridge!

I hate you

[No Crust Racing]

lol sorry Leesh, if it makes you feel better I'll only eat a quarter of it.

[Birds]

Oh Birds you make me laugh so much.

Add that 5mins to the time you already spent trying to debate the fact with a person who simply doesn't care what you think, time you wasted that you could have been using to lift.

And honestly, given you mentioned your stats of being 6'3 and 80kg, and having seen a pic of Troy, he looks a whole lot better than you do anyway.

Which is a point in itself, goals are completely subjective, aesthetics included, so while you might think you look good at 10% bf others would not.

In the end, worry about what you want to achieve and how to get it rather than trying to convince others that your way is the right way for them, especially given that different things work for different people different ways.

I'll be in the corner squatting poorly if you need me.

Troy does care what I think; we're brothers in arms. He's just hepped up on psychedelics ATM (love you Troy). I was his inspiration when he started this shit.

Troy and the others are chasing a lower bodyfat, okay. This is not me saying he should be 10%, it's him, which is the whole reason he's dieting ATM. I'm simply telling him how to get there and maintain in a way he hasn't properly tried before without all the f**k around of analyzing every piece of food he eats. I have this 10% bf and I have lifts not so different to his. My weekender job also procludes me from giving a f**k what you think of my appearance.

What works for one doesn't work for another blah blah...every person I've trained in the same way, has achieved similar results...so you can put that mantra where the sun sees least exposure. Strength training works for everyone.

Lastly, this is a forum designed for opinionated people to give opinions and advice, so suck a dick

[Birds]

Just because it works for you, does not mean it will work for me. End of discussion, since this has gone from offerings of advice/assistance to a blind rant of "I'm right you're wrong and my methods are final". I'm not saying what you're suggesting wouldn't work. Not suggesting that at all. What I am saying is that measuring something so you KNOW you're getting it right is much better than guesswork.

You wouldn't build an extension for your house by eye, would you? Of course not. You'd have the plans ready to go, with all materials and their respective measurements planned out beforehand, so you know that when you put it all together you won't be missing any nails along the way or find that the piece of timber you just cut is 20mm short thanks to judging it by feel. This is exactly what you're disputing and trying to tell us is the wrong way to do it.

You never even tried it properly mate!

And stop treating your body like some rocket science project that will fall apart at the slightest change of doing something different. f**k up the extension, it collapses and you lose all your money...f**k up the diet and you gain a kg that you can lose in 2 weeks.

Now I'll stop pushing advice on you, but I will continue to mock with snide comments

[jangles]

No, because my meal and gym plan for you would take 5 minutes to produce and last you years, as opposed to the 10 minutes you spend debating what brand of honey you use on your cereal, before switching to a diet that doesn't allow honey, before switching to one where you bulimia the honey.

Oh wait you're still hovering around 12% bodyfat and I'm 10% while I chomp on my Magnum ice creams and cheese and bacon balls...keep up the fad dieting and data entry boys

inb4 metabolism/ectomorph/9yearsoftraining/insertexcusenottolistentobirdshere

haha fad dieting. macro counting is the way of the future and the reason why all diets work, but not why they fail.

Not everything works for everyone though. You're the only one thats bashing people who try with proven effecient methods though

Troy has been at it 24 months, and only 2% off you and lifts more....gulp. better stop Troy.

Explain to us why your lifts/muscle development are so far behind? could it be because the lack of optimal methods you use?

[Birds]

At no point did I say it doesn't work; simply that it's unnecessary.

lol @ only 2%...you know body fat is not a linear thing, yes? And a shredded 8% guy is only 2% off me...big difference mate.

He doesn't lift more AFAIK. I'm also a lot taller and nearly the same weight...all that extra bone and skin really helps me to lift more

I also didn't start lifting the major compounds until 18 months ago. But I don't see where I'm competing in lifting, so...?

[No Crust Racing]

Wow, pics and everything, there's a good few minutes of lifting wasted in there.

And you can't, for a second, entertain the idea that what works for you, diet wise only, may not work for him or any other number of people?

If he has a system that works for him, regardless of what you think of the time invested or that you think it's unnecessary, why you so mad for? I don't recall him saying he needed to shave time of his dietary calculations, which is the main crux of your point it seems?

I'm glad you don't care what I think of your appearance, though your prickly reaction kind of implies otherwise, but the point I was making was just that goals are subjective and you seem to tout your bf% and looks as some kind of validation that what you sprout has any more merit than any of the other guys here, who probably lift a lot more and, again only in my opinion, probably look a lot better too - which is more so your focal point it seems (and a perfectly valid one at that).

Easy for me to criticise though, I don't look great or lift that much, but I do enjoy the process. What I do tend to take issue with is when people try and force feed others their opinions as gospel when they are likely coming from a very different view point, not to mention that the truth of the matter is we are not all created equal.

Oh, and you're right, it is just your opinion and you are free to share it like everyone else, you could learn a lot from TTT in delivering a no bullshit opinion without seeing this sort of reaction from the people you are likely trying to "help".

Edited June 4, 2013 by ActionDan

[Trozzle]

Repercussions aside, building something without plans or instructions and dieting without counting calories are exactly the same thing, just a different context. I know I can do it without counting - as I've said a few times I've previously dropped 4.5kg in 6 weeks with amazing results. This time I'd like to do it properly, knowing I'm getting the right nutrients in each day, rather than assuming that the food I eat each day will work. Last time I did it by feel I f**king hated it, and I don't have the time or patience to go through trial and error methodology just so I can eat tastier foods while remaining in a calorie deficit.

If I didn't want to bother counting calories, I'd go back to the same boring as shit diet that worked for me before - explicitly short cut bacon+egg whites for breakfast, then plain chicken mince (flavoured with herbs and spices) with brown rice and steamed vegetables for lunch/most other meals, and occasionally treating myself to some rump steak with equally boring sides as the chicken shit.

Oh, and f**kloads of coffee to stave off hunger.

[Birds]

Wow, pics and everything, there's a good few minutes of lifting wasted in there.

And you can't, for a second, entertain the idea that what works for you, diet wise only, may not work for him or any other number of people?

If he has a system that works for him, regardless of what you think of the time invested or that you think it's unnecessary, why you so mad for? I don't recall him saying he needed to shave time of his dietary calculations, which is the main crux of your point it seems?

I'm glad you don't care what I think of your appearance, though your prickly reaction kind of implies otherwise, but the point I was making was just that goals are subjective and you seem to tout your bf% and looks as some kind of validation that what you sprout has any more merit than any of the other guys here, who probably lift a lot more and, again only in my opinion, probably look a lot better too - which is more so your focal point it seems (and a perfectly valid one at that).

Easy for me to criticise though, I don't look great or lift that much, but I do enjoy the process. What I do tend to take issue with is when people try and force fed others their opinions as gospel when they are likely coming from a very different view point, not to mention that the truth of the matter is we are not all created equal.

I've done my lifting for the day. Now I'm onto the forum arguments segment.

I know my shit works, because, again, I have trained various people with it and achieved similar results.

The reason I hone in on Troy specifically is because he started out with a goal to have the physique that I also wanted. That is why I'm particularly more passionate about him doing things I don't believe he needs to. But anyway, I told him I would cut out the advice giving.

Prickly reaction? Nigga please...I was loling the whole way through writing my post.

Leave the tall poppy crap out of it. I don't think of myself as better in any way, though when I've achieved a goal that other people are chasing, of course I'm going to tell them how to get it. Again, because forum. Don't like it - log off the Internet.

[TM7GTR]

Dang, don't have time to read all that shit now. Will read later tonight.

In the mean time someone surely deserves this:

[No Crust Racing]

Birds, If only you could channel that energy into an aesthetic attribute you'd be an adonis lol

You know your shit works for you, and likely quite a few others (I think I'm in the same boat as you anyway), that's why there's more than one way to do anything because generally there's different ways that work well for different people. I think we've established that.

You can have the same goal and achieve it in different ways, when he likes his way and it works for him, why get dem panties in a bunch trying to change it?

Like you said, it's all just an opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

Historically though, I've found that if a large number of people tend to have an opinion about you, it's generally either bang on the money about who you really are, or at the very least, is indicative of the façade that you maintain - if you're the type that tends to try and portray themselves as someone they're not. That's a generalisation though, as I'm the only one (in this convo) to have taken a dig at you so for all I know others may love the way you dispense advice.

All this talking shit has given me a mighty hunger for cheese goods.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ActionDan

[No Crust Racing]

Dang, don't have time to read all that shit now. Will read later tonight.

In the mean time someone surely deserves this:

LOL Probably Troy, coz he needs to burn some calories, Nigga is carrying at least 2% more BF than is allowed.

[L33SH]

have some cheese for me please Dan

dat cutting life

[No Crust Racing]

Hahah you got it.

I'll do what Kate did when she was preggers, some for me some for baby.

Some for me, some for Leesh.

I couldn't beleive she walked out of the hospital in pre-pregnancy jeans after a 1 night stay 0_0

Dem fit girls awwww yeah.

[L33SH]

aawww lucky thing, I hope I can do that one day!

[No Crust Racing]

Pregnancy seems to affect everyone really differently ( a few friends going through it also atm).

All I could say from watching Kate go through it is keep active and eat lots, but healthy choices.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ActionDan