Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Birds]

If I'm up at the next DECA I can show you how to deadlift; in no time you'll be pulling more than that cake mongering TTT guy.

[No Crust Racing]

Appreciate it, but will pass. Quicker for me to chat with my BB mate around the corner or pay and go see Laurie than wait til the next DECA and look like a goose doing imaginary DLs on the skidpan

[rev210]

Dan, Can't see any vids of your form (they seem to be removed?). Like anything Form is critical, someone who knows what they are looking at is helpful.

Lacking flexibillity in the hips will cause issues. Not being able to feel and setup your back so it's in good postion will lead to rounding and hurt.

There is alot to work out for form.Setup with the knees 'under' the chest etc.. lock the arms and make sure you aren't lfiting with balance emphasis on the ball of the foot or toes. Rocking back on the heels to get the tension out of the arms, the list goes on.

[No Crust Racing]

I pulled them as they were the 30kg ezy bar ones and not indicative of what I'm doing now . I can make new ones and embarrass myself some more. Maybe tomorrow night.

Good to hear those things, as I'm doing some of them.

[TM7GTR]

Wow that was a marathon read.

Macro counting (IIFYM) seems to be the best approach pre-comp for bodybuilders. Friend of mine has been eating whatever he wants as long as it fits his daily totals, and slowly cutting this way for around 20 weeks so far. He's looking insane so far and is 6ft 80kg @ 9%.

In other news, I'm gonna eat me some ice cream with cookies right now.

[No Crust Racing]

Lunch wasn't filling enough, had double cheesburger with chips on it...

[No Crust Racing]

Here's a demo

After watching this I thought I was pulling with my arms so kept my back straighter so I couldn't bend at the arms and used them as hooks.

http://youtu.be/0rinu1OH59Q

[Birds]

You do seem to be pulling a bit with your arms in that vid; I don't think it helps that it's a light weight, so the tendency to row the bar up is there.

Chest out, shoulders back and let your back do most of the work. Hands are only there to hold on, so lift with that in mind, keeping the arms relaxed and straight. Don't be afraid to raise your hips higher and let the back follow (albeit keeping it straight) - deadlifts are foremost a back exercise and secondarily legs. Too much legs and it becomes a squat

[NickR33]

go with a double overhand grip for the time being... while the weight is light you can relax your grip and let the bar hang in your fingers... that will stop you trying to curl the weight up

get your weight back onto your heels and keep your chest up... set your hips higher, it's not a squat as Birds has mentioned

[No Crust Racing]

You do seem to be pulling a bit with your arms in that vid; I don't think it helps that it's a light weight, so the tendency to row the bar up is there.

Chest out, shoulders back and let your back do most of the work. Hands are only there to hold on, so lift with that in mind, keeping the arms relaxed and straight. Don't be afraid to raise your hips higher and let the back follow (albeit keeping it straight) - deadlifts are foremost a back exercise and secondarily legs. Too much legs and it becomes a squat

I think you're right, the main strain I feel is in the quads and while it's light weigh compard to where I should be, It's not light weight for my actual strength in that motion unfortunately.

By raising my hips higher, that means less leg drive and more lower back work yes? That idea scares me a bit with my back how it is right now, but I can take some weight off and experiement. Honestly, I was thinking of it more as a leg exercise with lower back as secondary so that shows the wrong mindset anyway.

go with a double overhand grip for the time being... while the weight is light you can relax your grip and let the bar hang in your fingers... that will stop you trying to curl the weight up

get your weight back onto your heels and keep your chest up... set your hips higher, it's not a squat as Birds has mentioned

Cheers, as above, looks like my approach to why I was doing this was wrong, I'll try hips higher and letting the back do the work, I imagine I will have to drop a ton of weight off it, I just don't get why my back in particular is so damn weak. Well, no work on it, sitting all day etc, I get it, but it shits me .

[rev210]

You need some help. The form is not good.

* You aren't smooth you are lifting with your arms. Get this right on the setup. You should have them in stretched position as you launch so there is no slack. That doesn't mean the upper arm muscles are tense. The grip however should be, like crushing the bar in your hands.

* Your hips are much too far back. This makes the posterior chain work much harder (your sore back)

* Is there something you like looking at to the left on every rep? Stop doing that.

And so on......

Go with the plan to get someone to show you.

[No Crust Racing]

Thanks Rev, I'll keep working on it. I'm new to it so I'm surprised it's not stellar.

Good pickup, for some reason I keep looking at my left hand to make sure my arms are by my sides and I'm pulling the bar up evenly/straight. Odd habit.

I'll have a play with it all and take some more clips so you guys can crush my already non existent confidence in the motion

Appreciate the help.

Edited June 8, 2013 by ActionDan

[No Crust Racing]

You guys should chuck up some vids as an example of good form.

[markos]

Check out his start position

Even though the weight is heavy off the floor, he keeps his back tight, never losing position

This is critical for the lockout.

If you give up position during the pull, your hips wont be where you need them to be during lockout

Now check out how easy lockout is for him because of this

[No Crust Racing]

Thanks for that, good to watch, I put my vid side by side and I see what you mean about the hip height, I didn't realise that DLs were THAT back centric which makes it even more amazing for me to think about people having backs that strong, very impressive.

Come Monday I'll drop off some weight and try some different things and take another vid.

I can't see my back being able to handle much weight at all and it looks like I've been cheating til now by making it more a leg exercise which is probably why my squat is finally starting to go in a positive direction.

The good news is through my physio it looks like I'm almost over my SIJ discomfort so that's a good sign that my things are improving in there also.

[No Crust Racing]

Didn't get to make a vid last night, skipped gym as I'd spent most of the weekend working on the car and my back and ankle were not great. Long way to go if doing normal things causes me that much of an issue. Physio this morning.

On the topic of Deadlifting, and don't shoot me for saying this, but doesn't that motion fly in the face of conventional wisdom about how to lift heavy things safely? Or is it only if done poorly, rounded back etc. True I'm only thinking about back in the early days of working in a supermarket where you were told to get down and lift with your knees not your back to avoid injury.

So is it that the back is actually stronger than we give it credit for or that deadlifting is specifically targeting a known weak spot to ensure it's strong for everything else we do?

Would I be better SLDL'ing instead to get my back stronger before moving to full DL.

Edited June 10, 2013 by ActionDan

[markos]

You think too much.

Deadlift is no more dangerous than any other movement.

Every exercise has the potential to injure you if done incorrectly.

Deadlifts and squats get a bad rap because the regular gym goer has dreadful technique and the PT has no idea how to do the exercise correctly.

Another big problem is the lifters ego. Not long ago I noted that some lifters in the challenges used poor technique. The reaction was like I was injected heroin in to babies.

The difference in my gym is that EVERYONE listens.

So when you contacted me Dan about help, and I was honest and you were humbled.

The reason EVERY girl in here deadlifts more than you is because we have taught them how to do the movement correctly, and theyre not scared of hurting their back when deadlifting 160kg.

Same goes with squats. Recently Birds was trying to get his squat up, so I gave him advice, he ignored it. So he squats 115kg while my girls squat 125kg, 125kg, 140kg, 150kg.

Its easy to dismiss it with blah, blah, blah, but the fact is no one WANTS to be weak, everybody would prefer to be stronger, as long as it didnt result in injury.

The best place to get stronger is in a strength gym or with a strength coach that has made people OTHER than himself stronger.

The PT industry is full of good looking chicks with hopeless clients who hold up their PT's like trophies. "My PT is hotter than yours"

A good PT or strength coach has lifters you should want to emulate. If you weigh 80kg and squat 100kg, and you see a coach has his 80kg guys squatting 200kg, you should aim to train with him.

Now, back to your question. The deadlift. So if 14yo Liam deadlifts 200kg and 64yo James deadlifts 215kg, and 48yo Nina deadlifts 142.5kg, and 12yo Jordy pulled 90kg, then Martin deadlifts 290kg at 20yo, and 75yo Eddy deadlifts 150kg, its safe to say that deadlifting is not dangerous, regardless of age or gender, if its done correctly.

Dont get your advice on the net, go see a coach

[No Crust Racing]

Fair enough Markos, keep in mind though my goals are not the same as your goals, I will always be on the light side in your eyes but that's honestly fine with me as I don't need to squat 200 or DL the same to look the way I'd like to look and to have usable strength in my day to day life or hobbies. I wasn't humbled, as I've never had an ego to begin with, I was humorously surprised though to find the gap between what I can do and what everyone else can do is as wide as it is, especially when you talked about what people START at, again I'm OK with that though, I clearly have a weak back or shit form - likely both which I'm looking to improve.

One question you missed though, If I know I have back issues, would I be wiser in the short term to focus on a DL assist exercise until I'm confident my back is in a better place.

As in SLDL or RDL or rack pulls etc.

Thanks again, always appreciate your feedback.

[markos]

To fix a weak area anywhere on your body, the best thing you can do is strengthen it. Society is paranoid when it comes to backs. Any slight discomfort forces them to stop what theyre doing. Different when jogging, you dont stop because your lungs burn do you, you dont stop curling because the pump is unbearable.

The slightest hint your back may be actually doing some work, and people stop.

Its not the exercise, its the mind you have to condition first.

And, nobody needs to squat 200kg. I remember watching some guy tell Arnold he never wanted to look like him, Arnold replied "Dont worry, you never will"

Dont think too much about 200kg squats and deads Dan, good luck.

I f**king hate doing this shit over the net, one session and most peoples issues are fixed

[No Crust Racing]

I wish you guys were closer.

As much as I love learning online I think the reality is I might just have to shell out a couple bucks (not a biggy) and go in and see someone for a session either Laurie or Matt (as you suggested).

Finding the time is the problem but if need be I'll just go when I would have been gyming, I'll probably get more out of that anyway.

And I agree completely Markos, when I have a twinge I do pull up and be very careful as I don't have your experience and expertise so I'd rather err on the side of caution til I'm confident I'm doing it right and the back is just protesting from genuine weakness (which it has) and not poor form (which I also have).