Gym And Supplement Discussion

[jangles]

Nah haven't had it looked at. Gave up on squats and deads at the same time due to constant flaring up of SIJ area and related muscles...though now when I come back to giving squats a shot, I simply can't get the bar into position with my hands on it (at any useful width) without this horrid pain. Would this be a physio's field if I were to see a professional about it?

I'd say physio, but personally i prefer a GOOD remedial massage. they cover more than one spot for the same money.

[L33SH]

I'd say physio, but personally i prefer a GOOD remedial massage. they cover more than one spot for the same money.

This, trigger point massage is amazing

[-FIGJAM-]

chiro sorted my back out when it wasn't aligned correctly

physio sorted my knees out when I could barely walk after one game of tag or a good leg session.

will vouch for both of them depending on the issue.

[L33SH]

Fair enough Figjam. Trigger point has helped with my migraines over the last 8 years and also sorted out any injuries. When I first injured my shoulder 12 years ago I went to physio and chiro and they didn't help at all, I've now got permanent muscle trauma which makes my shoulder susceptible to injuries. I'm wilinging to give them another go though.

[-FIGJAM-]

I guess it comes down to the type of injury and how good the chiro or physio is.

I would always go to a physio that specializes in sports injuries rather then any other type of physio.

My chiro came recommended so can't really help there.

[jangles]

chiro sorted my back out when it wasn't aligned correctly

physio sorted my knees out when I could barely walk after one game of tag or a good leg session.

will vouch for both of them depending on the issue.

I agree somewhat. Chiro will align back etc, instant pain relief usually, but don't adress the issue of the muscles that stretched to let it shift in the first place.

Trigger point therapy is good, but not everyone will have trigger points.

People will have their preferences, usually because the person that fixed them is good at their job and a bit more. not just a drone.

[Trozzle]

Troy, I'm booking a physio today; really don't want to as I think physios and chiros are bullshit / a waste of money, but going to give it a go... If I am you should too!

I've used an osteopath in the past who definitely knew what he was talking about. Physio I've seen before for one unrelated issue and was a bit sceptical afterwards but didn't really judge based on one experience heh....definitely will see another professional though, since I've gone and got myself private health cover specifically for these uses!

I'd say physio, but personally i prefer a GOOD remedial massage. they cover more than one spot for the same money.

I'm not quite convinced it'll be an issue remedial massage will fix, unless massage can be a substitute for stretching but either way, will definitely see a physio to see what/where they believe the problem lies, then take it from there

Cheers for the inputs y'all

[markos]

140/100/180 x 1 rep, performed correctly. Below parallel squat, bum stays on bench, no hitching.

No gloves, bitch pads or wrist straps, belts or knee wraps.

Some of you may know or remember, I never allowed belts or knee wraps in my gym till 2011, a full 3 years after I opened. The logic behind this was I felt we had to get strong before we added support gear. Looking by the numbers the guys are doing now, I feel justified in my approach.

[Dani Boi]

I think a lot of people will diagree that those numbers are beginner numbers. Just like many people will diagree with your brotein every 2-3 hours comment.

[No Crust Racing]

I'd agree with that, as in the numbers are a bit high to be classified as a beginner, but I'm talking average gym goer standards, not Markos PL training method standards.

So to us, they are good numbers to aim for and most of us would look pretty decent and be happy with those numbers, but to Markos it's just the tip of what he knows people can do and he's literally in it to win it so you gotta aim high to achieve greatness.

It's just a difference in perspective.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ActionDan

[-FIGJAM-]

cheers,

why against belts? I use a belt for squats and deads, I find it gives me extra confidence on the lift and when I forget it, I get back issues, the very same pain (right on my spine) that the chiro fixed.

I could probably go without the belt on deads, but squats would take some big convincing.

Also reading your newsletter, those lifts should be achievable within 12 months of solid training and diet? quicker depending on effort.

[bozodos]

I know how Markos will respond to that as well lol. He'll probably say he'll listen after you post your results.

I train with two big strong looking guys and they both only just surpass those 'beginner' numbers. I also have never seen anyone at my gym go over 100kg bench, or 100kg squats / deadlits. Even the aesthetic, bulky looking guys.

I've never stepped foot in a PTC though, and from all the reading, it seems to be more of an indicator of just how weak people at commercial gyms are, given how many people go to PTC and can surpass those numbers easily.

I stopped using gloves / pad on squats, I prefer not using either now - I think i was using them as a crutch for a lack of strength.

[markos]

Okay, lets go through this.

Liam Pannel, in 2 years of barbell training (did 6 months of light kettlebells as he was 12 years old) managed to squat 170kg, bench 110kg and deadlift 200kg, at 81kg bodyweight. Liam still plays football and its the reason he lifts.

So can I class a 14yo with 2 years training anything but a beginner?

Conor Zyskowski, 17yo, 86kg, 240kg squat, 120kg bench and 245kg deadlift, less than 3 years lifting, first 2 years while he was still playing soccer, not powerlifting.

Jesse Markopoulos, 19yo, 66kg, 180kg squat, 115kg bench, 200kg deadlift, quit basketball in December 2012 to take up powerlifting.

Max, at 17, only lifting for soccer, decides a week out to compete in a PL meet, at 72kg goes 160kg squat, 97.5kg bench and 212.5kg deadlift. Had done ZERO powerlifting training, the bench press gives the best indication.

Not one of these kids had started out to power lift, just general gym training for other sports, all teenagers. How could I possibly set the standard any lower.

Our absolute weakest powerlifter, at 70kg, goes 155kg squat, 110kg bench and 200kg deadlift.

So I've shown you the numbers of our youngest, lightest, inexperienced and weakest lifters. What do you guys think I should use as a bench mark?

Is it harsh that maybe youve been wasting your time?

Try this. Our Elite lifters do an 11 week program that adds 10kg per lift, you can do this 4 x year. Remember adding 10kg to a 170kg bench is not easy, adding 10kg to a 80kg happens in your sleep.

So if you join the gym, and squat 60kg on your first session, which 99% of my first timers do, going by my 40kg per year example for Elite lifters, you'll squat 100kg in 12 months (usually 2 months here). In 2 years, adding another 40kg, theres your 140kg.

Now can anyone argue that you shouldnt be classed a Novice lifter if you cant replicate that? The fact is most do it here in 6-12 months. If I was to make it 120kg, quite a few would be intermediate lifters within a month of training.

Max started at 51kg, squatted 110kg at 55kg, double bodyweight within weeks, he managed 140kg within around 3-6 months, at around 60kg and 15yo.

I havent bothered with the bench and dead because EVERYONE will hit 100kg within 12 months and I've had more than 1 guy pull 180kg on his first session.

[No Crust Racing]

I think we've been over this a number of times. Not everyone has the same goals, not everyone wants what you or PTC want and that should be completely fine. That aside, people need to stop getting so pissy when Markos makes the comments he does, yes he delivers bluntly but he's giving you his honest opinion based on his particular point of view, you don't have to like, listen or accept it (unless you want to be a PLer or you want to get bigger numbers then you might want to listen).

There is nothing wrong with Markos statement that those numbers = beginners, not only from a PL point of view but from a general strength point of view. If any man can turn up and pull 100kg deadlift in his first session then that must be considered roughly the starting point for most people, he'd know he's seen his fair share, how many of us have trained others to the degree that he has? If one guy gets to 160, he still considers himself to have improved on his starting point, and thus does not consider himself a beginner anymore, when he started out he could "only" do 100 remember, which is fine for that guy and from his point of view is accurate, but in Markos land, knowing what people need to pull to be competitive, which is his goal, it's not nearly enough.

It's just opinion and perspective and it makes f**k all difference so could we please shut the f**k up about the numbers and whether or not you are a beginner unless you are competing. The only number any of you need to worry about is how much above you've improved from what you started at and whether you want more than what you have, who gives a shit if random people on a forum think you are this or that. If you've added 10,20, 50, 100% to your starting weight then you have improved and you are now stronger than you were so good job, keep at it.

Edited August 6, 2013 by ActionDan

[SRS13]

fark it, despite all logic telling me not to, I'll bite;

rev - before (the last time this came up) you said pre-workouts were useless and placebo's, I took that to mean 'all'. Now you are saying only non-banned ones don't work... slight change of tune.. I think I know why....

Before when asked how you go from 15-25 reps or whatever it was, you said to take creatine and was it L'Arginine(?) as they can help you push out a few extra reps (apologies if I am incorrect on the l'arginine, im sure it was something like that)... now its beer (granted your taking the piss).

Those ingredients are in most if not all pre-workouts both banned and not banned. How do they work in isolation but not in a pre-workout? Yes the pwo has other ingredients as well and not all good but they do have those ingredients. My point? they are not all placebo's and useless as you make out. Slight contradictions imo.

Just saying....

Edited August 6, 2013 by SRS13

[-FIGJAM-]

Just want to point out, not all people who train with Markos, train to compete in power lifting....

[No Crust Racing]

Cool story Mitch?

[-FIGJAM-]

sounded like you were leaning towards the reason that Markos considers those lifts to be beginner bench marks was due to him training only power lifters with 1RM's in mind. Only reason.

don't disagree on the complete point that you have/tried to make.

[No Crust Racing]

I thought this covered off on that point.

"There is nothing wrong with Markos statement that those numbers = beginners, not only from a PL point of view but from a general strength point of view. If any man can turn up and pull 100kg deadlift in his first session then that must be considered roughly the starting point for most people, he'd know he's seen his fair share, how many of us have trained others to the degree that he has?"

[SRS13]

Markos - at what point do you recommend a person going from the whole body workout to the PPP workout as I'm assuming you don't start people on PPP - or do you? If so, for what reason would you recommend one over the other? Would you alternate between them? Thanks.