Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Dajae]

DC is kind of advanced for where he's at, i'd suggest PTC Beginner routine -

3x10 squat

3x8 Bench, OHP, bent over row, Stiff leg Deadlift, barbell curl (I did Romanian for mine because the definitions vary)

do this 3 times a week and do some sprints/hill/stair runs if you like. Add 2.5kg per workout or per week depending on how fast you progress. Do this for a few months and see how you go.

Possibly the easiest to remember and follow beginner strength routine. Of course you can always do Starting Strength or 5/3/1 for beginners, but they have a bit more thought involved.

Diet is also important, .8-1g/kg bodyweight per day is a good starting guide for most. As for more specific dieting advice, well that's a controversy all of it's own.

I'd respectfully disagree that DC is too advanced for his current level. By building in progressions into the DC style of training, he basically starts at "easy", and works his way up. What I mean by this is, for the first 'cycle' or two, don't do the rest-pause sets. Just do one all-out set to failure. Well, "failure".. You want to be able to re-rack the weight by yourself for the last rep. Then the next cycle, go all out to real failure.. the kind where the rack pins save your life.

Then the cycle after that, do half the rest-pause sets. So on so forth. Gets all the benefits without taxing himself too much early on. Besides, not enough people (the gym bros) know what it's like to REALLY push yourself.

If you set your program correctly, you're basically doing just compound movements, you're balancing out your pressing with equal/greater pulling (which is something that often lacks with 5/3/1 - powerlifting style routines...) so your shoulders and posture stay healthy. You're only training 3 times a week, hitting the same body part 3 times in 8 days. The beauty I think, is that you have a full 14 days between doing the same exercise.

Example, lets say yesterday (Wednesday 23/4) I did Squats (singled out exercise from the whole day) .. I wouldn't do them again until the 7th of May. This gives the CNS plenty of time to recover for those specific nerves and gives ample time to rebuild and repair. But because you're also doing the same "body part" twice more, but with different movements, you're essentially "cheating" your body into doing more, without really having too much backlash, so to speak. To me that's an awesome cost/benefit ratio. Beginners will often find that they can add 5kg, 10kg, even 15kg to certain lifts every workout. Do for 6-8 weeks, have a week or two off, then get back into it. Total volume over, say, a month is great for hypertrophy, and the increased time between doing movements allows your CNS to really get buffed up, allowing huge jumps in weight.

This is of course all assuming he can Squat, Deadlift, Bench, and Pull-up with proper form. Oh and dips... I fkn love dips

I do however completely agree with the diet part. That is SUCH an important aspect. Also with what Birds touched on about diet too.

Definitely cardio, but I don't gain or lose any noticeable fat in the off season. It's also more HIIT, given the short sprint nature of the game and my usual position as a centre. It does get in my way a bit, but I love basketball too much to give it up for gym goals. It's also good plyometric training for the functional side of being strong.

The point is, as a beginner, he should be resting more and eating above maintenance to promote muscle repair and growth.

So no bosu-ball-one-legged-one-arm-over-my-head-balancing-a-tea-cup-on-my-hand-bodyweight-squats for being functional?!

Yeah. Eat more, rest more.

You're in the gym for an hour. The other 23 hours are much more important. A lot of good advice here guys! Good work so much better than the shit dribble you find on bodybuilding.com, lol.

[bozodos]

thing is though, a beginner has a much better ability to recover than a more advanced lifter, due to lighter weights and rate of adaption. Therefore he could get away with squatting 2 or 3 times a week. It's why 5/3/1 for beginners has 2x each main lift a week for example.

[Dani Boi]

Just do 5/3/1 BBB or bodybuilding template.

[The Bogan]

I've swapped from the 5 3 1 BBB to a 8 6 4 template for bodybuilding taken from the "blackironbeast" website, its meant to be 8 6 3 but we knocked it up a rep on the last set to suit the challenge board at work .

My doc, physio and PTI want to limit the 1RM lifts to none, LOL.

The spongy cartilage stuff that sits between the bones in my lower back are "de-hydrated" I went to a specialist and had a MRI (free medical is handy at times), thus I get some bone on bone action, well not quite bone on bone as there are bundles of nerves which wiggle around them some how, its more of a bone on nerves on bone squashing type of thing.

I've been assured that as long as I keep good form and don't load up to much I will be fine.

I've been doing lots of stretching, walking, rolling and stuff whilst I've been out for the last week and a half with only some BW exercises to keep me happy, new program starts on Monday.

The reason for the injury is I did 5 3 1 deads 1 day before I tried to do a dead 4RM, I was not recovered from the deads and tried to lift to much weight to soon, idiot.....

I will also do a lot more core stuff than I have been doing, I did let it slip for a while and I feel this is what also helped to let me down.

[bozodos]

I'd been thinking of changing to BBB for my assistance as only squatting once a week and doing 2 days of a lot of upper body assistance is starting to make my squat lag (2 failed reps in the last 3 weeks); I can't do the prescribed front squats at the weights mentioned yet. Frustrating as I enjoy doing chins, dips and db rows, but I'd rather the main lifts not suffer.

Unfortuantely all of the helpful advice on BB.com is drowned out by the supplement shills and groupthink mentality (especially when it comes to anything deviating from IIFYM). Also the perpetuation of the notion that natty beginners should be training like experienced BB'ers on serious gear cycles.

[Dajae]

thing is though, a beginner has a much better ability to recover than a more advanced lifter, due to lighter weights and rate of adaption. Therefore he could get away with squatting 2 or 3 times a week. It's why 5/3/1 for beginners has 2x each main lift a week for example.

That's true. Recovery ability is usually better, if all else is on point. I'd like to throw in the "depends on goals, requirements" card at this point...

Just do 5/3/1 BBB or bodybuilding template.

.... and lead into this. I mean, sure, 5/3/1 and it's variants are great for powerlifters. There is no doubt about it. But just because it works great for powerlifters and some others, doesn't necessarily mean it's what this guy needs. Sure, he could be squatting twice or even three times a week.

But what if he has muscular imbalances that can be easily diagnosed? You know, too much pressing, not enough pulling. That's usually a dead give away. Doing a template like that leaves much to be desired IMHO..

5/3/1, having to calculate percentages, etc. How applicable is this to a novice/intermediate lifter, who as stated before, has an incredible rate of adaptation? Why limit the rate of growth/results by a perceived increase according to a percentage that becomes null and void after 2 sessions? I just don't see why it's practical to give the old blanket statement, 'just do 5/3/1' ... by the sounds of it he's not a competing powerlifter, nor does he have any intention...

I'd been thinking of changing to BBB for my assistance as only squatting once a week and doing 2 days of a lot of upper body assistance is starting to make my squat lag (2 failed reps in the last 3 weeks); I can't do the prescribed front squats at the weights mentioned yet. Frustrating as I enjoy doing chins, dips and db rows, but I'd rather the main lifts not suffer.

Unfortuantely all of the helpful advice on BB.com is drowned out by the supplement shills and groupthink mentality (especially when it comes to anything deviating from IIFYM). Also the perpetuation of the notion that natty beginners should be training like experienced BB'ers on serious gear cycles.

Sucks you missed some reps bro. Maybe you just had an off-week. How long until you deload? Maybe you need an early deload...

BB.com is f**king pathetic these days. I have a hard time staying on the site for more than 5 minutes. I totally agree with you on all points. Similar can be said for T-Nation. That site was great until they started plugging their shit-house supps into all their articles. I mean really... it's just gone too far now.

OH YEAH. So, thought I might share... I got some colostrum. Yeah I know.. rip off.. but I got it decently cheap! And it's got more goodies per gram than anything else I've been able to come across. I've got enough to go 40 grams/day for 4 months. The studies I've seen and read mostly agree that for a given time frame, you get more results using colostrum. So will be interesting to see how it goes... Starting some time in may. Anyone else used it at a similar dose? Results?

[bozodos]

I did notice I'd calculated my progression a tad too high, will see how it pans out for the rest of this cycle.

531 calcs are made a lot easier by using this calculator http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

Yeah T Nation has started to fall into that trap by having contradictory articles and yeah plugging thier obviously garbage supps non stop - they were good when they had lots of articles by Rippetoe and Wendler - their current stuff, especially by Amit Sapir and Christian Thibadeux I find to be mostly garbage. Same as for most of the recent EliteFTS articles.

[hazjaz]

Wow, alrighty haha.. seems as though everyone seems to have a different opinion on what to do and what not to do..

Ill take onboard all the comments and adjust my workouts to see if I'm feeling and seeing any changes.. The only reason why I kept this current routine is because I get a pump like I haven't with other routines.

I try to spend an hour max in the gym, sometimes it goes a little over that, but I work a 10-12 hour day so its a struggle sometimes.

And currently I would say I have been heading to the gym for around 2 years of actually knowing what to do, I have made pretty decent strength gains and dropped 8inches on the waist so I cant complain there, so not to sure if going back to basics is the best thing..

[Dajae]

Generally the fitness industry is full of differing opinions and views.. Just makes it a bit more interesting

Just remember you'll need to make a change and keep to it for 8 weeks to see any real changes.. But as for getting a pump.. While they're awesome, they aren't the best indicator of growth/adaptation. In saying that though, DC training done properly will give you pretty sick pumps, especially with the 'extreme stretches' between each exercise.

Are you doing stretching and foam rolling before and after your training session? I found that once my flexibility got better, so did my lifts. Especially squat and DL.

It's good that you have a decent foundation to work from then.. I think using the "basic" movements in a slightly more advanced layout could have a lot of benefits for you. Sorry, this is another shameless plug for DC training lol. It's just such an awesome routine. My brothers now do it, a few mates now do it, and I'm now in the process of converting a few others haha..

It's does require very laser like focus and consistency though.

Lift heavy shit, put it back down, eat enough for 2 people, sleep at least 6 hours, and you'll be sweet.

[hazjaz]

Generally the fitness industry is full of differing opinions and views.. Just makes it a bit more interesting

Just remember you'll need to make a change and keep to it for 8 weeks to see any real changes.. But as for getting a pump.. While they're awesome, they aren't the best indicator of growth/adaptation. In saying that though, DC training done properly will give you pretty sick pumps, especially with the 'extreme stretches' between each exercise.

Are you doing stretching and foam rolling before and after your training session? I found that once my flexibility got better, so did my lifts. Especially squat and DL.

It's good that you have a decent foundation to work from then.. I think using the "basic" movements in a slightly more advanced layout could have a lot of benefits for you. Sorry, this is another shameless plug for DC training lol. It's just such an awesome routine. My brothers now do it, a few mates now do it, and I'm now in the process of converting a few others haha..

It's does require very laser like focus and consistency though.

Lift heavy shit, put it back down, eat enough for 2 people, sleep at least 6 hours, and you'll be sweet.

I do more of a body warm up and do a light stretch in between sets.. eg, if I am training chest I'll start with dips and kind stretch it out in between each rep...

Is there multiple types of DC training, should I be looking for a particular routine?

I have exactly 10 weeks till Im heading to Europe, so I am all in for focus and consistency at the moment haha

Edited April 26, 2014 by hazjaz

[Mitcho_7]

I have been doing a 5/3/1 style pyramid type program for OHP, bench, deads and squats. I think its from beyond 5/3/1. I like it and its working decently for me currently but it may not suit you. What i like about it is its slow and steady progression, no crazy weight or rep jumps from week to week and I haven't missed a rep since starting.

I have also stopped training to failure on all exercises and feel heaps better for it. It takes like 1.5 hrs to get through everything.

week 1

65% x5, 75% x5, 85% x5 or more, 75% x5 (paused reps) 65% x5 or more (paused reps)

followed by 4 or so assistance exercises in the 6-15 rep range for 3-5 sets

week 2

70% x3, 80% x3, 90% x3 or more, 80% x3 (paused reps), 70% x3 or more (paused reps)

followed by 4 or so assistance exercises in the 6-15 rep range for 3-5 sets

week 3

75% x5, 85% x3, 95% x1 or more, 85% x3 (paused reps), 75% x5 or more (paused reps)

followed by 4 or so assistance exercises in the 6-15 rep range for 3-5 sets

I usually go for a new 1rm every 2nd 5/3/1 week after the 95% set. So i guess its every 6-7 weeks.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Mitcho_7

[Dajae]

I do more of a body warm up and do a light stretch in between sets.. eg, if I am training chest I'll start with dips and kind stretch it out in between each rep...

Is there multiple types of DC training, should I be looking for a particular routine?

I have exactly 10 weeks till Im heading to Europe, so I am all in for focus and consistency at the moment haha

Warm ups are awesome. If you do some Site specific stretching, for the muscles being trained that day, also lots of benefit to be had. DC training has a couple of layouts that can be followed.. However exercise selection comes down to personal preference and requirements.

I'm using my phone at the moment so don't have access to a lot of the saved pages, but I'll be back home tomorrow and I'll give you some info to read. Really easy once you understand the basic principles of the training style.

I think 10 weeks will give you enough time to see some good starting changes.. But don't expect huge transformations lol. What's your diet/nutrition/supplements like?

[Dajae]

I have been doing a 5/3/1 style pyramid type program for OHP, bench, deads and squats. I think its from beyond 5/3/1. I like it and its working decently for me currently but it may not suit you. What i like about it is its slow and steady progression, no crazy weight or rep jumps from week to week and I haven't missed a rep since starting.

I have also stopped training to failure on all exercises and feel heaps better for it. It takes like 1.5 hrs to get through everything.

Sorry for double post, couldn't figure out how to multi quote on my phone.

Glad to hear you're getting some solid results.

What are you assistance exercises like?

[Dajae]

So finally back home.. Here are some links you can read about to gain a bit of an idea of the whole 'DC Training' thing I keep going on about. Enjoy!

http://muscleandbrawn.com/a-concise-guide-to-doggcrapp-training/

http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-load-of-doggcrapp-is-dante-trudels-doggcrapp-training-system-the-next-big-thing-in-bodybuilding.html

http://dc-training.blogspot.com.au/

http://goonlifter.wikispaces.com/DC+Training+Example+Workout

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_50_pounds_of_muscle_in_12_months

Any questions, feel free to ask

[hazjaz]

Warm ups are awesome. If you do some Site specific stretching, for the muscles being trained that day, also lots of benefit to be had. DC training has a couple of layouts that can be followed.. However exercise selection comes down to personal preference and requirements.

I'm using my phone at the moment so don't have access to a lot of the saved pages, but I'll be back home tomorrow and I'll give you some info to read. Really easy once you understand the basic principles of the training style.

I think 10 weeks will give you enough time to see some good starting changes.. But don't expect huge transformations lol. What's your diet/nutrition/supplements like?

haha yeah I'm not expecting any miracles.

Currently the diet isn't to strict, I am needing to get something together but struggling on how to approach it a little..

breakfast is either scrambled eggs - 2 whole eggs and about 4 egg whites

morning snack - greek yoghurt with bircher muesli or a couple brown rice and salmon sushi hand rolls

lunch tends to be brown rice grilled chicken breast and salad, or half a chick and sweat potato

afternoon snack would be a casein protein shake, hand full of nuts

dinner is what ever is being made haha

As for supplements, I have amino acid, protein wpi/wpc blend, creatine, bcaa intra workout, pre workout and a casein custard protein.

I'll give those links a read, I'm sure I will have a heap of questions..

SO, from what I have seen and read.. each exercise is done as a 'warm up' for 3-4 sets? or is it you keep training it until fatigue and that is when the RP set is performed?

Edited April 27, 2014 by hazjaz

[Dajae]

haha yeah I'm not expecting any miracles.

Currently the diet isn't to strict, I am needing to get something together but struggling on how to approach it a little..

breakfast is either scrambled eggs - 2 whole eggs and about 4 egg whites

morning snack - greek yoghurt with bircher muesli or a couple brown rice and salmon sushi hand rolls

lunch tends to be brown rice grilled chicken breast and salad, or half a chick and sweat potato

afternoon snack would be a casein protein shake, hand full of nuts

dinner is what ever is being made haha

As for supplements, I have amino acid, protein wpi/wpc blend, creatine, bcaa intra workout, pre workout and a casein custard protein.

I'll give those links a read, I'm sure I will have a heap of questions..

Sweet, well it looks like you have a decent idea about eating properly.. If I could make a few suggestions, however...

Don't separate the egg whites from yolks. Unless you're trying to get to 4% bodyfat for a bodybuilding comp and you're 4 weeks out, it's crazy to be throwing away all that extra protein, vitamins and minerals, and calories from the yolks. Whole eggs for the win.

Also, try to treat your 'snack' meals as whole meals. Looks like you're doing that already, but just try to keep your portion sizes up.

I would also probably recommend spending a little less on supplements, and instead getting more food. I'd ditch the pre-workout, protein custard, the BCAA intra-workout supp, and swap out the wpi/wpc blend for just a straight WPI powder. If you're after a nice buzz for your training session, eat 3 big bananas and have a strong coffee about an hour before you train. If you get the rest of the supps from a bulk supplier, even better. A lot of the folks on here use BN, I personally use Bulk Powders, and I'm pretty sure a couple use True Nutrition. All are very good options. Most of the GNC type products, with the fancy labels, are usually junk.

But yeah, nutrition would be your first point to double check on. I find that counting grams of protein, and just eating carbs/fats until I'm over full makes it easy. As an example, this is what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast - 6 scrambled eggs (min 67g each total), 2 bananas, 2 pieces of toast, 2 sausages.

Meal 2 - Chicken breast, pasta, broccoli. Enough pasta to fill 3/5 average plate. Broccoli to fill the rest. Chicken breast on top.

Lunch - 2 big macs, 1 litre of milk, and a salad.

Meal 4 - "naked burrito" from MadMex, with double meat and extra rice. Large milkshake from donut king (choc caramel is sick)

Dinner - 300gram steak, 3 large baked potatoes, broccoli and beans steamed mix.

Meal 6 - 500ml milk, hand full of nuts. Cashews and almonds are my choice.

This is basically what I eat on a daily basis.. The only things that really change is the big macs or madmex, and the milkshakes. On training days, one of the meals get replaced with my PWO shake (600ml milk, 45 grams protein powder (wpi), 8 tspns of milo, l-glutamine) and a piece of fruit, and I eat 2 - 3 bananas pre-workout, along with my little supplement cocktail (ask for details).

I consume fish oil capsules throughout the day, usually with meals. I also drink at least 2 litres of filtered water, in addition to all milk and shakes, etc.

Looking at that, I'm hitting at least 3500kcal for the day. About what's needed for my 93kg-ish frame.

If you have a hard time eating a lot.. Try drinking lots of whole milk. If you're not lactose intolerant, crazy easy way to get lots of good quality calories. If you can, work up to 3 - 4 litres a day. That's anywhere up to an extra 2400kcal a day! Plus its like 80-something% water, so you're getting hydrated too. Just make sure you take at least 50% of the amount of calcium contained, in magnesium. I personally take 900mg before bed, as part of my ZMA supplement.

Just another perspective for you to look from best of luck dude!

[hazjaz]

Sweet, well it looks like you have a decent idea about eating properly.. If I could make a few suggestions, however...

Don't separate the egg whites from yolks. Unless you're trying to get to 4% bodyfat for a bodybuilding comp and you're 4 weeks out, it's crazy to be throwing away all that extra protein, vitamins and minerals, and calories from the yolks. Whole eggs for the win.

Also, try to treat your 'snack' meals as whole meals. Looks like you're doing that already, but just try to keep your portion sizes up.

I would also probably recommend spending a little less on supplements, and instead getting more food. I'd ditch the pre-workout, protein custard, the BCAA intra-workout supp, and swap out the wpi/wpc blend for just a straight WPI powder. If you're after a nice buzz for your training session, eat 3 big bananas and have a strong coffee about an hour before you train. If you get the rest of the supps from a bulk supplier, even better. A lot of the folks on here use BN, I personally use Bulk Powders, and I'm pretty sure a couple use True Nutrition. All are very good options. Most of the GNC type products, with the fancy labels, are usually junk.

But yeah, nutrition would be your first point to double check on. I find that counting grams of protein, and just eating carbs/fats until I'm over full makes it easy. As an example, this is what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast - 6 scrambled eggs (min 67g each total), 2 bananas, 2 pieces of toast, 2 sausages.

Meal 2 - Chicken breast, pasta, broccoli. Enough pasta to fill 3/5 average plate. Broccoli to fill the rest. Chicken breast on top.

Lunch - 2 big macs, 1 litre of milk, and a salad.

Meal 4 - "naked burrito" from MadMex, with double meat and extra rice. Large milkshake from donut king (choc caramel is sick)

Dinner - 300gram steak, 3 large baked potatoes, broccoli and beans steamed mix.

Meal 6 - 500ml milk, hand full of nuts. Cashews and almonds are my choice.

This is basically what I eat on a daily basis.. The only things that really change is the big macs or madmex, and the milkshakes. On training days, one of the meals get replaced with my PWO shake (600ml milk, 45 grams protein powder (wpi), 8 tspns of milo, l-glutamine) and a piece of fruit, and I eat 2 - 3 bananas pre-workout, along with my little supplement cocktail (ask for details).

I consume fish oil capsules throughout the day, usually with meals. I also drink at least 2 litres of filtered water, in addition to all milk and shakes, etc.

Looking at that, I'm hitting at least 3500kcal for the day. About what's needed for my 93kg-ish frame.

If you have a hard time eating a lot.. Try drinking lots of whole milk. If you're not lactose intolerant, crazy easy way to get lots of good quality calories. If you can, work up to 3 - 4 litres a day. That's anywhere up to an extra 2400kcal a day! Plus its like 80-something% water, so you're getting hydrated too. Just make sure you take at least 50% of the amount of calcium contained, in magnesium. I personally take 900mg before bed, as part of my ZMA supplement.

Just another perspective for you to look from best of luck dude!

I don't separate them, I have bought liquid egg whites haha, it makes it easier and taste better IMO then full egg scrambled eggs, but I'll keep that in mind..

So you think I should be eating more? I seem to gain fat more easily then I can gain muscle so I am always a little sceptical of eating too much shit..

I have used bulk nutrients before, maybe I should head back to them... its just there packaging that gave me the shits, all the seals seem to split haha.

Your meals sound insane haha, you must be a a unit! Is that considered as a 'cheat day' meal? I am a similar weight to you but and would have no issue eating that much but I swear if I ate like that on a daily basis I would put on a heap of fat, especially if I am following the DC training and hitting up the gym 3 times a week?

In regards to the DC training from what I have read and seen from sample workouts - you perform each exercise as a 'warm up' until you hit a fatigue set in which the RP set is completed and you move on to the next exercise?

[Dajae]

I don't separate them, I have bought liquid egg whites haha, it makes it easier and taste better IMO then full egg scrambled eggs, but I'll keep that in mind..

So you think I should be eating more? I seem to gain fat more easily then I can gain muscle so I am always a little sceptical of eating too much shit..

I have used bulk nutrients before, maybe I should head back to them... its just there packaging that gave me the shits, all the seals seem to split haha.

Your meals sound insane haha, you must be a a unit! Is that considered as a 'cheat day' meal? I am a similar weight to you but and would have no issue eating that much but I swear if I ate like that on a daily basis I would put on a heap of fat, especially if I am following the DC training and hitting up the gym 3 times a week?

In regards to the DC training from what I have read and seen from sample workouts - you perform each exercise as a 'warm up' until you hit a fatigue set in which the RP set is completed and you move on to the next exercise?

Oh sorry, my mistake. Liquid egg whites huh? Interesting.. Works out cheaper than just buying eggs does it or? Ah ok then, if you're doing it for the taste factor, then I can understand why you'd leave out the yolks. I personally love the taste, but that's probably because I cook with real butter only. Usually about 15 - 25 grams or so melted in the saucepan (just as it turns to a slightly brownish colour) before adding in the whisked eggs. This gives it a real nice full flavour, creamy, with a bit of a "nutty" undertone.. really helps to kill the usual 'egg' taste. Also, I don't season until after cooking. This stops it from going too watery. And usually just season with freshly ground pepper.

Usually the case with lack of results is eating habits.. And that usually means they aren't eating enough. But since you have said you seem to gain a bit more fat, do you mind if I ask where you are at "fat wise"? Can you see any definition on the abdominal region? I'd still say eat more. Perhaps change the ratio of protein/carb/fat... Fasted cardio (low intensity, like a brisk walk) also really helps to limit fat gain.

Yeah Bulk Nutrients seem to be really good. I've never used them personally, but their products look really high quality. And from the last time I was on their site, they also get products lab tested. Haha yeah the packs are annoying! Bulk powders do the same. I actually have a few spare protein powder tubs that I use for the protein (I buy 9kg at a time, cheaper).. The tub is about 3kg, so I only have to open the zip lock bag twice to fill the tub.

Haha, definitely not a unit! But definitely not the smallest guy at the gym either. No cheat days here, I just eat like this all the time. If I feel I went a bit overboard on one particular day, I'll put the brakes on a little bit the next couple of days, but other than that I eat what I feel like. As long as I'm hitting protein grams (about 1.5 - 2 grams/lb bodyweight) on a daily basis, while eating lots of veggies, I'm content. I thought the same thing as you before heading into DC training, about the fat gain. But surprisingly, the training style and cardio on 'off' days really does limit the amount of fat I gain, if any at all. Proper use of certain supplements can also assist in this.

Yeah dude, hit the nail on the head. Use only as many warm up sets as you need, then go balls-out in the RP set. If you're really honest with the breaks for the pauses, you'll be surprised how much wind you'll be sucking by the end of it. Least amount of time spent between exercises also serves to keep the heart rate up.

If done properly, by the end of the session, you'll feel absolutely wiped. But there will be a part of you that says, "I feel like that wasn't enough".. but it's definitely enough! Plus the way they do calves is BRUTAL. I can't get over it. I'm pretty sure I've added half an inch to my calves in 3 months, lol.

[rev210]

Hazjaz. Missed what your goals were? Basically it sounded like you are happy training the way you do but want to get leaner?

If so, then how lean? Vs where you are now.

Its mostly a food thing to be leaner as already suggested. Training methodology will alter a little bit based on genetics, you may have to do more or less based on the genetic base you have.

As suggested also eating too little either as a whole or in each of the meals per day can put the brakes on.

There are lots of workouts around obviously. Getting bulk muscle can be achieved with many of them

1) go with something you enjoy

2) measure the effectiveness and goals in something qualitative (increases of weight/reps/time)

3) understand asthetics are subjective and genetically limited. You will always look like either a bigger/smaller/fatter/leaner you.

Edited April 28, 2014 by rev210

[Dajae]

Thought I'd join in on this thread..

Currently 90kgs and the goal is to gain muscle, before going onto a strict diet/new training program.

I have just switched up my routine and train;

Chest Calves

Back Abs

Legs Calves

Shoulders Abs

Arms

Bit of a struggle to push out consistent weight and reps as it depends on how big of a day at work I have had.. I aim for 5 sets of the main muscle of that day/what I think needs it the most and work my way from there.

I have come across Evogen Stack which I want to give a try.. it includes a pre/intra/post. One of the supps in a carb loader.. does anyone have experience with this?

And does anyone have some feedback for Cellucor products?

Anyway, thats me for now

Hazjaz. Missed what your goals were? Basically it sounded like you are happy training the way you do but want to get leaner?

If so, then how lean? Vs where you are now.

Its mostly a food thing to be leaner as already suggested. Training methodology will alter a little bit based on genetics, you may have to do more or less based on the genetic base you have.

As suggested also eating too little either as a whole or in each of the meals per day can put the brakes on.

There are lots of workouts around obviously. Getting bulk muscle can be achieved with many of them

1) go with something you enjoy

2) measure the effectiveness and goals in something qualitative (increases of weight/reps/time)

3) understand asthetics are subjective and genetically limited. You will always look like either a bigger/smaller/fatter/leaner you.

Agree with many points Rev. Especially point number 3.. Very true! And something which a lot of guys will often not take into account..

Great post.

Oh, and it looks like he was looking to get the gainzz before dieting down. The suggestion to change up his training routine came from the fact that his current routine looks like it has a little to be desired.. I thought DC would have been a decent suggestion because it limits the amount of work sets he has to do. Something which he stated can be affected by his work day.

I initially thought about SS or 5/3/1, but to see decent gains in muscle mass along side the strength gains, the volume required still heads into more sets per workout, something which could still be affected by his work day.