Gym And Supplement Discussion

[L33SH]

Yeah, it's the way it all kind of fits in with my schedule and work.. What kind of routine would you recommend..?

I so know the answer to this birds

[Birds]

What are your goals? Get stronger? Build lots of muscle or both? Lose fat?

What exercises are you doing to work those muscle groups? What weights, sets and reps?

And perhaps most importantly, are you happy with what you're getting from your current routine?

Happy to recommend a routine for you based on answers to the above, but then you'd be taking a program from someone you haven't seen or know nothing of their ability themselves = no credibility = program could be worse than your existing one.

[bozodos]

Don't mean to deter you from posting in the thread, but...

You train calves and abs twice a week, but shoulders, back, chest and legs only once? And you have a whole day devoted to arms?

gooby pls

You'd be suprised how many people train like this.

hazjaz: what do you squat, bench and deadlift for a 1 rep max (or 5 whatever), and what is your bodyweight?

[Birds]

The only time I think it would make sense is if you were a bodybuilder and those particular muscles were your weakness with regard to symmetry and proportion...but even then...

P.S. Think he already said he's 90kg

[bozodos]

as I said on another forum, the only people I've ever seen with big calves are serious bodybuilders (i.e. on insulin) and fat people.

[Birds]

Truck drivers, but they are usually fat too.

[Dani Boi]

And asians (noracist)

[TM7GTR]

Yeah Leesh I found out the hard way that they swapped suppliers of the WPC and now ship in 5x 1kg bags haha. Thought something screwed up with the website, so I just selected choc for all the flavours

[Birds]

I got 10 bags of protein lol

[L33SH]

I got 10 bags of protein lol

Of the same flavour you douche

[Birds]

I wanted a 10kg bag of the same flavour, bean flicker

[L33SH]

I wanted a 10kg bag of the same flavour, bean flicker

Don't always get what we want do we?

[hazjaz]

What are your goals? Get stronger? Build lots of muscle or both? Lose fat?

What exercises are you doing to work those muscle groups? What weights, sets and reps?

And perhaps most importantly, are you happy with what you're getting from your current routine?

Happy to recommend a routine for you based on answers to the above, but then you'd be taking a program from someone you haven't seen or know nothing of their ability themselves = no credibility = program could be worse than your existing one.

My goal previously was to increase strength, in which I did.. I am heading to europe in July so I guess the goal now is to lose fat but dont want to get skinny..

Currently my routine is as follows, although I tend to either add reps if I feel I can/change or add an exercise if I feel like I need to work something more

CHEST

Dips - 4 x failure

Dumbell Flat Bench - 5 x 8-10 (~34kgs)

Dumbell Incline - 4 x 8-10 (~30kgs)

Flat (or decline) Flyes - 4 x 12-15 (16kgs)

Dumbell Pullovers - 3 x 8-10 (30kgs)

Cable Flyes - 3x12-15 (12kgs)

45 degree Calves - 4 x 12-15 (80kgs)

Seated Calves - 4 x 12 (~35kgs)

BACK

Pullups - 4 x failure

T Bar Row - 4 x 8-10 (65kgs)

Lat Pulldown (behind neck) 4 x 10 (~60kgs)

One arm row - 4 x 8-10 (32kgs)

Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 4 x 8-10 (~60kgs)

Lower Back Raise - 3 x 10

Abs

Abs

LEGS

Squats - 6 x 8-15 (start at 60kg and add weight each set)

Leg Press - 4 x 8-10 (160kgs)

Leg Extention - 4 x 8-10 (~60kgs)

Stiff Leg Deadlift - 4 x 8-10 (35kg each side.. doesn't feel right to go too heavy with this..)

45 degree Calves - 4 x 12-15 (80kgs)

Seated Calves - 4 x 12 (~35kgs)

SHOULDERS

Standing Barbell Press - 5 x 8-10 (~45kg)

Seated Dumbell Press - 4 x 8-10 (26kgs)

Side Lat Raise - 3 x 8-10 (12kg)

Barbell Front Raise - 3 x 8-10 (35kg)

- Super Set Seated Dumbbell Rear Delt Row - 3 x 8-10 (22kg)

Barbell Shrugs 4 x 6-12 (40kgs)

ARMS

Barbell Curls - 5 x 8-10 (40kg)

Preacher Curls - 4 x 8-10 (35kg)

Concentration Curls - 4 x 8-10 (12kg)

Skull Crush - 5 x 8-10 (30kg)

Cable Overhead Extention - 4 x 8-10

Rope Extention - 3 x 10

I try to get cardio in on the off days.. really depends on work though haha, I am interested to hear what you think of this..

You'd be suprised how many people train like this.

hazjaz: what do you squat, bench and deadlift for a 1 rep max (or 5 whatever), and what is your bodyweight?

I have never attempted 1 lift for a squat.. Deadlift probably 160-170kg for a couple reps, never had a strong chest but bench I have done around 100-110kgs

[Dajae]

Splitting the body part up into groups (such as chest, back, arms) works great if you're on the juice. From the best of my knowledge and a ton of anecdotal evidence, for natural guys, hitting the same muscle group more than once a week seems to give the best results in terms of "rep range strength" and muscle mass increases.

This obviously means your volume will have to reduce, but if you work it right, you'll increase your intensity to take advantage of the increased frequency.

It's been suggested (and this is further backed up by some studies, and lots of "real world" evidence) that hypertrophy and CNS stimulation only requires a certain amount of stimuli, to produce a certain amount of gainz brah. After that threshold has been reached, you're only tearing down muscle fibre and depleting stored muscle glycogen for no reason other than to feel "the burn", etc. (just to illustrate a point)

Example. For your body to produce 20 grams of new muscle tissue in your chest, it requires only 3 sets (of a high enough intensity). Regardless of how many sets you do, your body can only produce a certain amount of new muscle tissue. Just because you did 6 sets, doesn't mean you'll grow 40 grams. Just because you did 9 sets, doesn't mean you'll grow 60 grams. See where I'm going with this?

'I really only want to gain strength, I'm not so concerned about size.' Yeah, well, the beauty about strength is that an increase in muscle cross sectional area can have a pretty profound effect on strength. You say you want to lose a bit of fat without looking skinny...

I'd say find a program where you train each muscle group at least twice a week, with a lower individual daily volume, but the same/if not higher total weekly/monthly volume. Throw in some fasted cardio (conflicting evidence about whether or not it's more/less effective, but it doesn't hurt) on the off days, a tiny bit of carb cycling, and you'll be home and hosed.

I'd recommend doing a google search on "DC Training"... they say it's for advanced dudes only (+3 years of heavy lifting) and juiced up bro's, but if you look at it closely, it actually resembles what a natural lifter requires really... really... really well.

Unless of course you're on the juice.

In which case, I'd still do DC Training. And up your Tren dosage to 500mg/week

Hahaha.. awesome. Nah, but seriously, have a google of that DC Training and see what you think. I'm sure the other guys/gals here will also have some decent recommendations for you.

[No Crust Racing]

Thought I'd join in on this thread..

Currently 90kgs and the goal is to gain muscle, before going onto a strict diet/new training program.

I have just switched up my routine and train;

Chest Calves

Back Abs

Legs Calves

Shoulders Abs

Arms

Bit of a struggle to push out consistent weight and reps as it depends on how big of a day at work I have had.. I aim for 5 sets of the main muscle of that day/what I think needs it the most and work my way from there.

I have come across Evogen Stack which I want to give a try.. it includes a pre/intra/post. One of the supps in a carb loader.. does anyone have experience with this?

And does anyone have some feedback for Cellucor products?

Anyway, thats me for now

Welcome.

You'll find most in here subscribe to strength/power lifting and less body building type routines.

Also don't listen to anything Birds has to say, he's a raging homo and needs to eat a hamburger

As a semi reformed bro curler and squat dodger I can relate to some of your routine - I used to do 3 different bicep exercises 3 times a week - I can say that since shift to more of a compound exercise routine I am a bit more rounded strength wise and enjoy the work more. I also got bigger and easier but that was more to do with weight/rep scheme.

If your goal is trimming/fat lose, then a big part of that will be in your diet. Aiming for sets of 8-12 and having shorter breaks will assist also, that's just what I find though, everyone is different.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ActionDan

[bozodos]

DC is kind of advanced for where he's at, i'd suggest PTC Beginner routine -

3x10 squat

3x8 Bench, OHP, bent over row, Stiff leg Deadlift, barbell curl (I did Romanian for mine because the definitions vary)

do this 3 times a week and do some sprints/hill/stair runs if you like. Add 2.5kg per workout or per week depending on how fast you progress. Do this for a few months and see how you go.

Possibly the easiest to remember and follow beginner strength routine. Of course you can always do Starting Strength or 5/3/1 for beginners, but they have a bit more thought involved.

Diet is also important, .8-1g/kg bodyweight per day is a good starting guide for most. As for more specific dieting advice, well that's a controversy all of it's own.

[Birds]

My goal previously was to increase strength, in which I did.. I am heading to europe in July so I guess the goal now is to lose fat but dont want to get skinny..

Currently my routine is as follows, although I tend to either add reps if I feel I can/change or add an exercise if I feel like I need to work something more

CHEST

Dips - 4 x failure

Dumbell Flat Bench - 5 x 8-10 (~34kgs)

Dumbell Incline - 4 x 8-10 (~30kgs)

Flat (or decline) Flyes - 4 x 12-15 (16kgs)

Dumbell Pullovers - 3 x 8-10 (30kgs)

Cable Flyes - 3x12-15 (12kgs)

45 degree Calves - 4 x 12-15 (80kgs)

Seated Calves - 4 x 12 (~35kgs)

BACK

Pullups - 4 x failure

T Bar Row - 4 x 8-10 (65kgs)

Lat Pulldown (behind neck) 4 x 10 (~60kgs)

One arm row - 4 x 8-10 (32kgs)

Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 4 x 8-10 (~60kgs)

Lower Back Raise - 3 x 10

Abs

Abs

LEGS

Squats - 6 x 8-15 (start at 60kg and add weight each set)

Leg Press - 4 x 8-10 (160kgs)

Leg Extention - 4 x 8-10 (~60kgs)

Stiff Leg Deadlift - 4 x 8-10 (35kg each side.. doesn't feel right to go too heavy with this..)

45 degree Calves - 4 x 12-15 (80kgs)

Seated Calves - 4 x 12 (~35kgs)

SHOULDERS

Standing Barbell Press - 5 x 8-10 (~45kg)

Seated Dumbell Press - 4 x 8-10 (26kgs)

Side Lat Raise - 3 x 8-10 (12kg)

Barbell Front Raise - 3 x 8-10 (35kg)

- Super Set Seated Dumbbell Rear Delt Row - 3 x 8-10 (22kg)

Barbell Shrugs 4 x 6-12 (40kgs)

ARMS

Barbell Curls - 5 x 8-10 (40kg)

Preacher Curls - 4 x 8-10 (35kg)

Concentration Curls - 4 x 8-10 (12kg)

Skull Crush - 5 x 8-10 (30kg)

Cable Overhead Extention - 4 x 8-10

Rope Extention - 3 x 10

I try to get cardio in on the off days.. really depends on work though haha, I am interested to hear what you think of this..

For most part I agree with what Dajae said. Where I really agree is that training one group of muscles once a week is not enough for someone trying to build up the basics - be it solid strength foundations or a lot of muscle mass, or both (they are very much correlated, so strength goals can be a great thing for building the latter). Very few can benefit from the kind of training you're engaging in and, like I said before, the only people I've seen do that kind of routine with success are body builders who are...usually on juice...and far past the stages of building basic/foundation strength/muscle. I say basic because unless I see a picture to the contrary, showing you with decent muscle mass, then all I have to go off here are your weights that you lift and judging by those, you still have a way to go before it is worth your while looking at advanced routines...even if you've been training for years.

My own opinion is that you're doing way too much exercise and the exercise you're doing isn't as effectively arranged as it could be. I think you're focusing on isolation movements that are of little benefit to you right now; I think you're looking at supplements way before you even need them, to use as bandaid fixes / plateau breakers when there are fundamental issues with your exercise routine. Without this being a pissing contest, you go to the gym 5 days a week and spend about an hour a session there (judging by your exercises) doing 11ty different exercises. I go 4 days a week, spend 40 minutes there, am 12kg lighter and lifting heavier than you - from doing only 4 different exercises. The only supplement I use is protein. I'm not naturally strong, quite the opposite...but where I succeed is working out smarter rather than harder; I recognise the importance of adequate rest and a diet that supports a training routine that doesn't leave my muscles beyond repair for days, that is focused on improving strength where I can. And I'm not even what I would consider a great lifter!

I used to have a lot of exercises like you and spent a lot of time in the gym thinking more is better. I think that when we see progress from exercises we don't like to give them up, so as we discover new exercises we want to adopt, we end up hoarding exercises and our routine turns into a mess of low intensity overtraining without adequate rest periods for muscle growth/repair. We feel we're going backwards or we don't see progress and the automatic assumption is that we need to train more, train harder rather than training smarter - it is the opposite. Rest is as important as the training itself and this is one of the reasons cardio on the off days can be a self-defeating, goal-crushing behaviour. I say reduce the exercises, focus on building up the big compound movements a couple of times a week and then see a marked difference in results and time spent in the gym.

If you want to lose fat but fear being skinny, then you likely don't have what you perceive to be enough muscle. If you don't have enough muscle then you likely don't have enough strength. So I would say get back on the strength goals and then let those take care of the body fat too. Body fat for most part is diet, but you can pump out volume sets of heavy weights that will burn up a shitload of calories too. I do no cardio, don't have a fantastic diet (it's decent) and sit happily around 10% bf. But I may well be what you would consider skinny...

[L33SH]

Basketball isn't cardio?

[No Crust Racing]

Will give Birds props for working out smarter than he was previously.

Basketball counts as cardio I'd say.

I would say you're skinny (or skinnier than I would want to be), but I still have hangups about being skinny so my opinion may not be objective enough.

Also, I dropped a few KGs while on Holiday despite eating a ton of short bread and bad foods... I put it down to spending a lot of time running around with/after the grub which was very fun.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ActionDan

[Birds]

Basketball isn't cardio?

Definitely cardio, but I don't gain or lose any noticeable fat in the off season. It's also more HIIT, given the short sprint nature of the game and my usual position as a centre. It does get in my way a bit, but I love basketball too much to give it up for gym goals. It's also good plyometric training for the functional side of being strong.

The point is, as a beginner, he should be resting more and eating above maintenance to promote muscle repair and growth.