Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Dajae]

Id like to qualify that by a strength program I meant something that is not "incidental" and relative as it is in the DC program.no intent to disrespect the program.

A 100kg squat is stronger than 50kg but, this program is unlikely to efficiently deliver rapid strength gains on anyone other than a beginner or a complete slacker. And as agreed it is because its an asthetic program. Strength gains are a bonus and necessary incidental benifit but , volume appears to be the main effective vehicle of hypertrophy in the program.

If that makes sense.

Fair enough; whilst any program can deliver strength gains, I do believe for a "body building" program, DC training provides the best strength gains to muscle mass gains (in terms of a ratio)..

I'd hazard a guess that whether or not it can deliver rapid strength gains will ultimately come down to the individual. It's not uncommon to add 5kg - 10kg to the same exercise every fortnight (since you only hit a particular exercise once in a 14 day period). Many percentage-calculated strength programs have you only adding 2.5kg - 10kg (?) per cycle, such as 5/3/1 variants. This is not an all-encompassing statement though, as I'm aware that other strength-focused programs have no such 'absolutes' when it comes to adding weight.

While volume does have to be there for decent hypertrophy, I still think the 'use heavy weight' mentality of many users of the program keep them getting stronger. Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too; I just find that for many persons, this style of training gives enough strength/mass together to keep the individual happy. It's most certainly not for everyone; the principles of the program alone tend to cause disagreements (as we've seen, lol)

EPIC posts, and just to stir the pot a bit more, I claim that under grasp heaves/chins/pull ups are the best exercise for the bicep.

Ive attached my latest if anyone CBF looking, its a slightly modified 8 6 3 from blackironbeast web site, start week 2 on Monday.

I just print it off and tick next to it if I get it and record reps for my + set.

Would you believe, I completely agree with you. Supinated chin ups were my bread and butter for getting "big" (compared to normal) arms, along with dips. I think I did a few sets of curls here and there if I was bored. However now that I've got sufficient arm girth, I'm looking for some more... dare I say it... peak. Lol. Hence the change to a more hypertrophy-orientated program.

Sweet looking spread sheet. I use an app to track my progress; I tend to forget my notepad a lot.

Also in other news... Was just checking out some videos on youtube.. and came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN08c9hSBw0

The guy featured (Jeremy Hamilton) has a 335lb OHP!! That's some serious strength. Damn.

[The Bogan]

Good vid and a very clean lift, I was waiting for the old push press but was happily suprised.

As for forgetting the training log, I hate that, I now print off 1 months worth and it lives in my smelly gym bag, it only comes out to update the EXCEL sheet.

[France]

Fair enough; whilst any program can deliver strength gains, I do believe for a "body building" program, DC training provides the best strength gains to muscle mass gains (in terms of a ratio)..

Really don't agree with this at all. What are you basing this claim off of?

I dare say 5/3/1 offers a greater strength to hypertrophy ratio than DC training does.

I know you had left the caveat of a "bodybuilding" routine, however that is all subjective. In fact a lot of powerlfters view 5/3/1 as a bodybuilding routine rather than a strength routine

[Dajae]

Really don't agree with this at all. What are you basing this claim off of?

I dare say 5/3/1 offers a greater strength to hypertrophy ratio than DC training does.

I know you had left the caveat of a "bodybuilding" routine, however that is all subjective. In fact a lot of powerlfters view 5/3/1 as a bodybuilding routine rather than a strength routine

I think you might have misunderstood what I meant..

DC training, when compared to many other "hypertrophy specific protocols", tends to also increase your strength much better than those same "body builder" routines.

I'm basing that claim off of the multitude of DC training logs on the internet, my own experience, experiences of people over at T-Nation forums, friends that have taken up the program, and my brothers.

Subjective to a degree. What I mean is, you don't look at a 5 day body part split and say to yourself, "hmm, I'm not sure if that's a body building routine or not....". Anything that focuses, on a whole, on building mass as the objective, I believe can be loosely classed as a 'body building' routine.

In fact a lot of powerlfters view 5/3/1 as a bodybuilding routine rather than a strength routine

I'm trying to figure out why you mentioned this. It's basically like me saying, "A lot of body builders view DC training as a strength program", because the rest-pause set repetitions are often 5 or below.

5/3/1's main goal is strength increases, right? It's objective is strength. It is structured to mostly procure strength gains. Hence low reps, working above 90% 1RM fairly often. You can view it any way you like; those set/rep parameters are geared to focus on strength increases. Just because BBB (for example) has a handful of sets at 10 reps, doesn't really allow it being viewed as a body building routine surely? Granted, you can probably put on a bit of size doing 5/3/1 and it's various templates, but it's definitely not the fastest way to pack on muscle. Nor to be aesthetically balanced enough to be able to call it 'body builder' focused. Just a thought.

[tweety bird]

Of the same flavour you douche

Lol.

[tweety bird]

Wait

sorry I thought this was the wasteland...

[tweety bird]

But while I'm here..

I seem to be suffering from a lack of energy when I'm at the gym.

Thoughts?

[The Bogan]

More pre work out coffee is needed bird man.

[tweety bird]

I don't drink coffee..

I usually eat some low fat yogurt with some fruit salad before I got to the gym.

And maybe a banana.

[Dajae]

I don't drink coffee..

I usually eat some low fat yogurt with some fruit salad before I got to the gym.

And maybe a banana.

Maybe try adding a handful of cashews/almonds prior to eating the yogurt and fruit salad. Have 2 bananas.

The fat in the cashews/almonds will help to slow down the digestion of the 'simple' sugars in the fruits, causing less of an insulin spike, which could help to give a more sustained release of energy. This all depends on how your insulin sensitivity is, though.

You could even try sipping on a homemade isotonic electrolyte drink... fresh coconut water

[L33SH]

Wait

sorry I thought this was the wasteland...

Lol Matthew you douche

[6InlineTT]

Try having a protein shake without carbs an hour before you train.

carbs before a workout can cause spikes of energy and flats.

I had this issue even with preworkout, Dorian Yates steered my in the right direction.

lots of caffiene and a protein shake.

people will sayb" u need carbs to work out" and yes u do, however

the glycogen stores last alot longer than we all think.

Give it a go. I'm no expert. Just quoting old Dorian.(former mr olympia)

[L33SH]

I don't drink coffee..

I usually eat some low fat yogurt with some fruit salad before I got to the gym.

And maybe a banana.

I'd be substituting the fruit salad for 2 bananas, they have less simple sugars than fruit and more protein and calcium well as potassium, lectin and Vitamin B6. Also have a protein shake 2 to 3 hours before training. Listen to some raw, energy pumping music on the way to the gym and at the gym (I like RATM, System of a down, Korn, Eminem, Bring me the Horizon)

When I'm at the gym I have a specific goal that I need to achieve such as an extra 2.5kg on my last 1RM or more reps on a set; this helps stay focused and gives my session purpose, which assists in feeling energetic.

What you do after training is just as important for the next session, magnesium, protein shake, protein / carb rich meal, sleep

[r31slpr]

Bananas are great

[tweety bird]

Lol Matthew you douche

I know.

I lol'd.

[tweety bird]

Maybe try adding a handful of cashews/almonds prior to eating the yogurt and fruit salad. Have 2 bananas.

The fat in the cashews/almonds will help to slow down the digestion of the 'simple' sugars in the fruits, causing less of an insulin spike, which could help to give a more sustained release of energy. This all depends on how your insulin sensitivity is, though.

You could even try sipping on a homemade isotonic electrolyte drink... fresh coconut water

Ok will try.

[tweety bird]

I'd be substituting the fruit salad for 2 bananas, they have less simple sugars than fruit and more protein and calcium well as potassium, lectin and Vitamin B6. Also have a protein shake 2 to 3 hours before training. Listen to some raw, energy pumping music on the way to the gym and at the gym (I like RATM, System of a down, Korn, Eminem, Bring me the Horizon)

When I'm at the gym I have a specific goal that I need to achieve such as an extra 2.5kg on my last 1RM or more reps on a set; this helps stay focused and gives my session purpose, which assists in feeling energetic.

What you do after training is just as important for the next session, magnesium, protein shake, protein / carb rich meal, sleep

I do the same thing with the goals which I find helps.

Also I don't have protein shakes.

Should I?

[tweety bird]

Bananas are great

No...

They're awesome!!!

[Birds]

But while I'm here..

I seem to be suffering from a lack of energy when I'm at the gym.

Thoughts?

Tiredness at the gym and finding a solution here is as good as going to doctor and saying I feel crap give me some meds. Can you be more specific?

When do you go to the gym? After work? How often do you go? What exercises do you do? What is the last meal you have before gym? What do you eat over an average day? Are you dieting? How much sleep do you get of a night and do you feel it is enough for you?

All factors that will influence this and there's plenty more.

[bozodos]

yeah 5/3/1 is probably a bit heavy on volume compared to a 'proper' powerlifting routine where there is weeks of doing triples, doubles or singles at 90+% of 1RM. There is a variant for PL though.

I started doing BBB this week, so far so good. Also managed to get out 6 single neutral grip chinups unassisted. Pretty stoked given that I weigh 122kg.