Meeting With Sapol

[Fishpaste~]

I think the nay sayers have kinda missed the points of what we are trying to acheive

1) better information from/for BOTH sides as to what is legal/illegal

-i know of at least 1 meber who is taking off illigal modification on their car

2) any other sort of discrimination and people would be hopping mad.. next time you get defected for a stock part or with out correct testing done to see if... i dont know, your car is too loud? see how sympathetic people will be

3) so far their has been little regard for things like engineering certificates from police, the whole line "but you've modified it since then" has been throwen around... we want to make sure that if we start complying with the police that they will take things like eng certs seriousally

-why should we try and modify our car legally if the best proof that we can obtain is dissmissed and thrown out the window?

4) trying to show the police we have moved away from the street to the track in attemps to please the public/reduce hoons joing our club

-case in point, last few kellie cruises were kept very sedate. also note how most of the people that do like to speed complain about "not enough driving" at them

-also we are focusing on the track now (as members get older/wiser) and the new mods are helping to keep these fourms very car related

to sum it up, were not asking for a get out of jail free card, if we do something illigal then we cop it if we get caught... but when we go out of our way to comply with the rules, make sure our cars match or excede ADRs only to have any proof we provide dissmissed or our 1 source of information (regency) be SO contradictory as well as what information the police officers have that even if you've been told something is legal by 3 people, 1 might dissagree and u have to start all over again... i think you are getting what im saying by now, we ARE trying to work with, we WANT to see a working and fair system!!! if we dont do it who will? how will this system get fixed if we dont ask for it to get fixed?

[ted180]

but when we go out of our way to comply with the rules.

you still dont get it.

who has gone out of their way to modify their car legally? who has got engineers certificates etc?

very very tiny minority.

its all well and good to say we want to be treated fairly if we have all these certificates or whatever, but noone is actually doing it.

show of hands, who on here DOES have modifications to their car with engineers certificates and proper testing done to ensure all requirements of the adr's are met?

[ovrtym33]

you still dont get it.

who has gone out of their way to modify their car legally? who has got engineers certificates etc?

very very tiny minority.

its all well and good to say we want to be treated fairly if we have all these certificates or whatever, but noone is actually doing it.

show of hands, who on here DOES have modifications to their car with engineers certificates and proper testing done to ensure all requirements of the adr's are met?

totally agree with u Ted

[DamageInc]

you still dont get it.

who has gone out of their way to modify their car legally? who has got engineers certificates etc?

very very tiny minority.

its all well and good to say we want to be treated fairly if we have all these certificates or whatever, but noone is actually doing it.

show of hands, who on here DOES have modifications to their car with engineers certificates and proper testing done to ensure all requirements of the adr's are met?

no-one cause its expensive as !

[ted180]

no-one cause its expensive as !

and the reason it costs alot?

an engineers certificate is there to tell you the modification meets ALL adr's, and is safe to drive on the road, which means its not going to snap in half and kill you/anyone else, or cause a crash/whatever. how much money do you think car companies put into cars to ensure they pass all adr's and are legal? an engineers certificate isnt a mark on how much they spend.

to make matters even worse, people buy shithouse china copy shit, slap their motors together in their shed, and then complain when they get defected.

Edited February 18, 2009 by ted180

[D_Stirls]

as mentioned above, here is the one of main problem with the modified scene in SA.

ENGINEERING IS TOO EXPENSIVE:

And you might ask yourself why is it so expensive? The reason is because regency will only accept engineering report from 3 engineering firms (even though they can't do this legally; I will explain below). So these firms can charge what they like because you have no choice; if you want to have your car engineered then you have to take your car to them.

This works out well for everyone except the car owners themselves, the engineers get to keep their business extremely profitable and regency get to collect as much revenue it can for the government by keeping themselves constantly in business with cars that would easily be granted an engineers report but for the fact the owner doesn't have the $1000's of dollars to get the report.

For this same reason mod plates won't work in this state either; To be granted a Mod plate in the eastern states you must first receive a engineers report. The thing is in the eastern states to get an engineers report for a whole car would generally be around the $1000 mark not the $6500 marks you would be charged here.

This is highlighted by the NS.com project car (I know you don't want to hear about anything NS.com but hear me out for a sec). Loz went to get the car engineered here in SA and he was given a quote of around the $6500 mark, which of course he didn't follow up on. He then moved to Queensland last year, he then thought he would get a quote for getting everything mod plated including the T67 and the Haltech; and the quote came to be around the $800 mark through Autosport engineering in Sydney.

Now I said earlier that regency can't refuse a report from a certified engineer; this is because engineers are certified by "Engineers Australia" (of which I'm a member) which is the peak body for our industry. By regency refusing the engineers reports they are calling the engineers qualification into question which considering there are NO engineers at regency there is no one there qualified to make this call and it not their job to do so anyway.

The other problem with the modified scene is that we don't know the legalities correctly which is why I will be asking Neil for documentation when ever he claims that an item is illegal. A lot of the time cops just make up some BS to get you to regency and then let them sort you out and people just roll over and take it. You ask how the eastern states got their systems reformed by fighting the BS defects in court which led to a call for the system to be reviewed as the courts were sick of seeing uneducated policing of defects.

Edited February 18, 2009 by D_Stirls

[SLED]

Interesting read Dale.

As radical as my bike is and you won't find too many like it being ridden around legally in Adelaide, I got an interstate engineer's certificate which only required an ID inspection at Regency due to the already fitted compliance plate.

Now this will screw with your head........another interesting point is that most full custom builds are registered as and ICV (individual custom vehicle) whereas we managed to register mine through Dotars in Canberra as a stock standard imported production bike which was assembled in Australia because a bike with the same configuration is mass produced in LA. It still required a stack of money spent on engineering but a mate of mine in Melbourne (who passed away very recently) did all the hard yards for me with their 1st production import.......mine was the 2nd one in Australia which has now paved the way for others to do the same.

[nisskid]

you still dont get it.

who has gone out of their way to modify their car legally? who has got engineers certificates etc?

very very tiny minority.

its all well and good to say we want to be treated fairly if we have all these certificates or whatever, but noone is actually doing it.

show of hands, who on here DOES have modifications to their car with engineers certificates and proper testing done to ensure all requirements of the adr's are met?

i didnt get my shit engineered cos i didnt need to, it was legal, and i still got defected for it. u know how much $$ i spent on my car to legally mod my car only to get slapped in the face and told its all illegal by some police officer whos probably never seen a dipstick in his life (besides when hes looking in the mirror)

[JMW]

Hey Pete does the ICV come into for the fact it is basically built from a modified frame and not just a customised factory bike? Just interested thats all.

Excellent looking bike you have there too

[Fishpaste~]

you still dont get it.

who has gone out of their way to modify their car legally?

hrmm.... think before you speak? i know a fair few other SAU regulars with legal cars that you could also quote and tell them they "dont get it", but being such a regular yourself you'd already know their names right?... (yes there are also lots more that have got illigal modifications, but what is illigal? what is legal?.. oh wait, that sounds like a point.. a very good point, one that needs some kind of clarification and standardisation of some sort... who pray tell shall we get to do this? mebe some kind of super person?)

anyhows, hopefully this has given roo, nene and ben some more discussion points to raise with neil at the very least

BTW. i still think you should point out actions speak louder than words regarding keeping receipts in your car and what hapened to rocky88

[SLED]

Hey Pete does the ICV come into for the fact it is basically built from a modified frame and not just a customised factory bike? Just interested thats all.

Excellent looking bike you have there too

My frame was manufactured by Big Bear Choppers in LA.......it's not a customized Harley frame, so it can be put in the same class as an ICV when it comes to frame manufacturing.

Difference is, mine is mass produced in another country (and been formerly approved by Dotars here in Canberra) and not a one-of custom build.

The problem is, as Dale may have been implying, I can still be pulled over and sent to Regency just on the belief that my bike is defectable, ie. on suspicion the rake or front end trail aren't within spec........stuff cops can't measure on the side of the road but can still put you through the rigmarole of Regency purely on suspicion of further modification since compliance.

Clear as mud eh?!

[Madaz]

I think the nay sayers have kinda missed the points of what we are trying to acheive

1) better information from/for BOTH sides as to what is legal/illegal

-i know of at least 1 meber who is taking off illigal modification on their car

...

hrmm.... think before you speak? i know a fair few other SAU regulars with legal cars that you could also quote and tell them they "dont get it", but being such a regular yourself you'd already know their names right?... (yes there are also lots more that have got illigal modifications, but what is illigal? what is legal?.. oh wait, that sounds like a point.. a very good point, one that needs some kind of clarification and standardisation of some sort... who pray tell shall we get to do this? mebe some kind of super person?)

anyhows, hopefully this has given roo, nene and ben some more discussion points to raise with neil at the very least

BTW. i still think you should point out actions speak louder than words regarding keeping receipts in your car and what hapened to rocky88

so they would have you believe

[TALBO]

I think this is pretty bloody obvious, imo if you're sent to Regency for something Regency deem legal (police got it wrong) then we shouldn't be the ones paying fees them If it's a legit defect (police got it right) then we pay

[SLAPS]

Pillar gauges

Too low

Dark tint

Loud exhaust

Boost controller

After market bov

Turbo timer

Fuel computer/ecu

Engine modifications (plenum, different turbo/exhaust manifold, cams, different motor that hasn't been approved)

We know the above list is illegal (if you don't do some research and don't be so lazy) so exactly what are we trying to achieve with Neil??

Stop him having bad days and defecting for non-existent items when those are smart arses towards him? It won't happen.

Or are we going to provide him with free education how to detect highflows and other various 'hidden' modifications? lol

Edited February 18, 2009 by TheRogue

[CRoNic...]

Cams are illegal?

How can they check for that! Unless you have a extra-lumpy idle or something...

[whatsisname]

I think the nay sayers have kinda missed the points of what we are trying to acheive...

... i think you are getting what im saying by now, we ARE trying to work with, we WANT to see a working and fair system!!! if we dont do it who will? how will this system get fixed if we dont ask for it to get fixed?

Speaking of missing the point, Fishpaste…

Your last paragraph is exactly what I've have been saying on this very forum for the last four years. Unfortunately attempting to get a fairer system by choosing a starting point of two Port Adelaide Police Station officers (at the lower end of the rank structure) is like trying to fell a tree with a nail file. They are merely officers at the coalface with a job to do and within the laws and structures that are in place in this state.

Want a fairer system? Then start lobbying the South Australian government until they cannot take it any more and do something about it. Write a letter a day for then next 5 years, address it directly to the SA Minister for Transport etc. (ala Shawshank Redemption style)You'll have a better chance of seeing that fairer system.

As far as what are and aren't legal modifications, well, in this state you have ADRs and then you have whatever Regency Park decide. Show me the hard and fast legal vehicle modification laws applicable for South Australian registered vehicles and then try and compare them to ADRs... I bet you'll be surprised.

[Inline 6]

mines engineered didnt cost that much, but then i dont have that much done to it.

[CRoNic...]

Speaking of missing the point, Fishpaste…

Your last paragraph is exactly what I've have been saying on this very forum for the last four years. Unfortunately attempting to get a fairer system by choosing a starting point of two Port Adelaide Police Station officers (at the lower end of the rank structure) is like trying to fell a tree with a nail file. They are merely officers at the coalface with a job to do and within the laws and structures that are in place in this state.

Want a fairer system? Then start lobbying the South Australian government until they cannot take it any more and do something about it. Write a letter a day for then next 5 years, address it directly to the SA Minister for Transport etc. (ala Shawshank Redemption style)You'll have a better chance of seeing that fairer system.

.

So incredibly true.

[rad100]

as mentioned above, here is the one of main problem with the modified scene in SA.

ENGINEERING IS TOO EXPENSIVE:

And you might ask yourself why is it so expensive? The reason is because regency will only accept engineering report from 3 engineering firms (even though they can't do this legally; I will explain below). So these firms can charge what they like because you have no choice; if you want to have your car engineered then you have to take your car to them.

This works out well for everyone except the car owners themselves, the engineers get to keep their business extremely profitable and regency get to collect as much revenue it can for the government by keeping themselves constantly in business with cars that would easily be granted an engineers report but for the fact the owner doesn't have the $1000's of dollars to get the report.

For this same reason mod plates won't work in this state either; To be granted a Mod plate in the eastern states you must first receive a engineers report. The thing is in the eastern states to get an engineers report for a whole car would generally be around the $1000 mark not the $6500 marks you would be charged here.

This is highlighted by the NS.com project car (I know you don't want to hear about anything NS.com but hear me out for a sec). Loz went to get the car engineered here in SA and he was given a quote of around the $6500 mark, which of course he didn't follow up on. He then moved to Queensland last year, he then thought he would get a quote for getting everything mod plated including the T67 and the Haltech; and the quote came to be around the $800 mark through Autosport engineering in Sydney.

Now I said earlier that regency can't refuse a report from a certified engineer; this is because engineers are certified by "Engineers Australia" (of which I'm a member) which is the peak body for our industry. By regency refusing the engineers reports they are calling the engineers qualification into question which considering there are NO engineers at regency there is no one there qualified to make this call and it not their job to do so anyway.

The other problem with the modified scene is that we don't know the legalities correctly which is why I will be asking Neil for documentation when ever he claims that an item is illegal. A lot of the time cops just make up some BS to get you to regency and then let them sort you out and people just roll over and take it. You ask how the eastern states got their systems reformed by fighting the BS defects in court which led to a call for the system to be reviewed as the courts were sick of seeing uneducated policing of defects.

so if we were to get a engineers cert from interstate this would be void here in SA?

can we only go to regency approved engineers?

[Sinful]

Its still no better here in the eastern states "NSW"

Cops are still uneducated on defecting components and most of us stay off the streets and take it to the track

It's actually worse cause if your car isnt how it came out from factory its illegal! they take photos of you car here and document what they defect you on so if you get pulled over again with same mod you're in big trouble