2500km Old Gcg Highflow Turbo Died, Possible Cause Of Failure?

[R31Nismoid]

So what happened to you getting it done under the warranty you were so sure you were going to get?

Told you it wouldn't be fixed for free.

For $1200 id be talking to hypergear about a brand new turbo

Try the ART28G4 including internal gate kit oil line and dump pipe its costing me $1330 delivered will flow over 300rwkw

Why would he put a bush bearing turbo in place of the ball bearing he has now?

Makes little sense to me, especially when the GCG turbo is ready to go. Just new wheels and cartridge.

The GCG item is superior in every way, and hence they are $1700 or whatever new as opposed to cheaper hi-flows which are $1200

[Rolls]

So what happened to you getting it done under the warranty you were so sure you were going to get?

Told you it wouldn't be fixed for free.

I can't be f**ked arguing with them, I could get it sent back, get bill to do a full inspection but then I would have to take them to court, I was hoping it was an installation error or something clear cut that I could get the workshop to pay for but if it was a balancing issue then because it seized (would have cooked everything when that happened) it probably has all the signs of excessive EGTs and Id just have my thumb up my bum for months.

You love rubbing salt in peoples wounds don't you nismoid sure you are probably right most the time but you come across as a cynical cranky old man some times lol.

I guess I could ask for all the damaged parts to be sent back with the new turbo, that would be a fair request wouldn't it? then I could get a third party specialist to examine the damage. In fact I think I will do that, not like they can re use the wheels, bent shaft and shagged bearings.

[hypergear]

Well since GCG build your turbo its probably good idea to work some thing out with them.

If you can't work things out, and assume it is a Garrett BB CHRA that is in it and your turbine wheel is not broken we should be able to overhaul it for you in its original Ball bearing form for lot less then $1200.

Also for our sleeve bearing units. Well it is cheaper to build, and I believe this is still the most reliable setup for aged engines. I still get full boost at 3500RPM out of our 520HP Turbo. We've lighted the shaft and modified the bearings for minimum friction, its not really the same as the older Garrett's sleeve setups.

[Rolls]

Yeah I've already given them the go ahead but I'm going to ask for the bits back.

You could honestly do new bearings, front + rear wheel, shaft and balancing for _a lot_ less than $1200? How much is a lot, and do you use the same parts? This is more out of curiosity as they have probably already started work on it.

Both wheels have hit the housing but it was only for maybe 30 seconds under vac so the damage is minimal, however with something that spins at 150,000rpm I really doubt that you would risk re using it even after putting it on a balancing machine.

[R31Nismoid]

I can't be f**ked arguing with them, I could get it sent back, get bill to do a full inspection but then I would have to take them to court, I was hoping it was an installation error or something clear cut that I could get the workshop to pay for but if it was a balancing issue then because it seized (would have cooked everything when that happened) it probably has all the signs of excessive EGTs and Id just have my thumb up my bum for months.

You love rubbing salt in peoples wounds don't you nismoid sure you are probably right most the time but you come across as a cynical cranky old man some times lol.

I guess I could ask for all the damaged parts to be sent back with the new turbo, that would be a fair request wouldn't it? then I could get a third party specialist to examine the damage. In fact I think I will do that, not like they can re use the wheels, bent shaft and shagged bearings.

Sometimes people just have to find out for themselves

If there are markings as GCG say - you will NEVER be able to prove otherwise mate. Just because you are running 12:1 AFR on that day doesn't mean there was an issue with the motor/car before you brought it or any other situation i could easily think of

If there are blue scores on the bearings etc, it could also be oil related as other people have said - it is very easy to have a turbo inlet block up.

If you can't work things out with them, and assume it is a Garrett BB CHRA that is in it and your turbine wheel is not broken we should be able to overhaul it for you in its original Ball bearing form for lot less then $1200.

Cartridge is what, $1000? Plus new wheels, balancing and machining whatever damage the wheels did (which sounds like there is some)

For $1200, it is a good price. You won't get a ball bearing turbo rebuild for any less than that IMO.

[Rolls]

it could also be oil related as other people have said - it is very easy to have a turbo inlet block up.

For $1200, it is a good price. You won't get a ball bearing turbo rebuild for any less than that IMO.

If its getting 1.6L/minute of good uncontaminated oil at idle then surely oil can be ruled out?

And yes I agree, I think this is definitely my cheapest option and from someone else's perspective a very good price, I am happy they aren't charging me labour as well.

At the end of they day I got the car for a steal with $20k in receipts so although I'm coughing up for it now I will still come out further ahead than if I did all this work myself.

Now as for when the turbo goes back on the car, to make sure I do not have a repeat episode what should I check?

The cat and mufflers are not blocked, the oil and water supply appears clean and to flow sufficiently, the car will be getting a completely new tune from a different tuner. I will also request that they laser gun the dump pipe/housing to see what sort of temps it is getting. What else should I be checking?

Edited October 28, 2009 by Rolls

[hypergear]

To overhaul the turbo with original Garrett Ball bearing bit is $700. And a comp wheel is $180. slap every thing together and you are back on the road.

The turbine shaft is the most expansive part, depends on the part No. They cost aorund $300.

The Oil out put volume is fine for BB CHRAs. They don't needs much oil to run, But the oil that goes into it needs to be very clean.

[Rolls]

The turbine shaft is the most expansive part, if that is not good then we need to check up the part No. and get you a price on that. They'll be aorund $300 mark.

Quite sure this is what caused the issue, it was running off centre due to it being out of balance, or the balancing weight drooping. So I imagine this is gone.

So yeah thats $700 + $180 + $300 + rear wheel + assembly and freight >= $1200

Thanks for the offer though.

edit: I've been advised that a blocked oil drain could cause the oil burning that I experienced but put down to poor sealing on the forged pistons, how would I check that the oil drain is not blocked and is working correctly?

I plan to remove the line and check that it is not blocked, but how would I check that the actual drain into the block is not partially blocked?

Edited October 28, 2009 by Rolls

[hypergear]

Depends on how bad the turbine shaft is. In most of the time its the ring grove that wears. That could be sleeved and re cut pretty cheaply. and even it is bent we have machines to make it straight. But if the fins are broken or gone then that can not be re-used.

[Rolls]

GCG said the would use new wheels so I think I will stick with that, interesting to know they can be repaired, personally I wouldn't risk it though.

[Kaido_RR]

so let me get this right? the turbo was unbalance? and you are paying for it to be replaced or fixed?

[Rolls]

so let me get this right? the turbo was unbalance? and you are paying for it to be replaced or fixed?

No they said the cause was excessive EGTs, the turbo guy here in Adelaide said thats a load of shit and it is far more likely it was not balanced correctly.

There is absolutely no way to prove that they are lying to me so I have to suck it up and pay. What would you do Kaido_RR ? I could ask for the turbo to be sent back, get an independent investigation to the failure, it will probably be inconclusive but leaning one way, I then have to take them to court and chances are I dont win, I burn my bridges and they will no longer deal with me. I am then left with nothing. Also the turbo is out of warranty, technically however if it is deemed an unreasonable failure I can still take them to court and get the repair for free, but then I have to prove that the turbo failure was 'unreasonable' even though it was out of its 12 month warranty. I can't prove the turbo wasn't used everyday for that period and that my 2500km claim is true.

At least this way I get a new turbo with 12 month warranty for fairly cheap, I am still going to ask for the broken bits back though so I can get some sort of opinion on the mode of failure that is 100% un biased.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Rolls

[Kaido_RR]

No they said the cause was excessive EGTs, the turbo guy here in Adelaide said thats a load of shit and it is far more likely it was not balanced correctly.

There is absolutely no way to prove that they are lying to me so I have to suck it up and pay. What would you do Kaido_RR ? I could ask for the turbo to be sent back, get an independent investigation to the failure, it will probably be inconclusive but leaning one way, I then have to take them to court and chances are I dont win, I burn my bridges and they will no longer deal with me. I am then left with nothing. Also the turbo is out of warranty, technically however if it is deemed an unreasonable failure I can still take them to court and get the repair for free, but then I have to prove that the turbo failure was 'unreasonable' even though it was out of its 12 month warranty. I can't prove the turbo wasn't used everyday for that period and that my 2500km claim is true.

At least this way I get a new turbo with 12 month warranty for fairly cheap, I am still going to ask for the broken bits back though so I can get some sort of opinion on the mode of failure that is 100% un biased.

fair enough, its just that i would not be buying the same turbo again.

having a turbo unbalance is a pretty big deal, don't understand how a brand new turbo can have this issue if the company has the correct quality control.

[Rolls]

fair enough, its just that i would not be buying the same turbo again.

having a turbo unbalance is a pretty big deal, don't understand how a brand new turbo can have this issue if the company has the correct quality control.

If you read the rest of the thread you would see that for the price I am paying nothing will come close, anything even similar will be an extra $500-700 in cost for no gain.

If it took 2500kms for the turbo to fail it would have to have been an impossibly small imbalance, anything else would cause the turbo to shit itself almost immediately, it most likely would not have shown up on their machine, otherwise as you said their quality control would not have let it be sold.

I personally believe that I just got unlucky, you don't hear theres stories very often.

[wolverine]

I would do exactly what you are doing Rolls. No point in crying over spilt milk either way.

$1200 for a new turbo = best long term result.

[R31Nismoid]

fair enough, its just that i would not be buying the same turbo again.

having a turbo unbalance is a pretty big deal, don't understand how a brand new turbo can have this issue if the company has the correct quality control.

If there are blue scores as GCG said - they how do you deduce balancing?

Where did you even pull that from? The person who said it was balancing has not even pulled the turbo apart, so its nothing more than speculation.

[Rolls]

The turbo did seize at one put so I imagine that would have caused severe overheating as I reved it to about 4 under-load as I wasn't sure what had happened. Could have been the cause of the blue scores. The exhaust wheel showed no signs of overheating though.

[DVS JEZ]

agreed^^^

have you got your new turbo back yet?

[SirRacer]

I personally think they are just taking you for a ride, it was probably their fault but they know you really cant do much about it so have decided to charge you to rebuild it.

Its a lot of hassle to get an independant person to look at it then take it to a small claims court, but then you would probably at least get your money back.

That said, id say you have probably done $1200 bucks worth of damage to GCG's reputation as a result, so dont feel too bad.

[dori34]

lets hope the new turbo last longer

post up once u get it and is up and running