M35 Or Subaru Liberty 3.0r?

[bbenny]

Its simple... Test drive both on the same day. The difference is huge. For a turbo engine the VQ25 is very torquey it feels like a V8 in terms of response compared to an RB25.

For me it came down to two points - I needed a wagon for work - didnt have to be huge, but more room is better. The other point, is I like to drive. I dont drive a huge amount of kms every week, I just enjoy driving, and the stagea is the kind of car, that after work or whatever it is you do, it makes you smile when you give it a good squirt.

But I have to admit, its the best road-trip car ever! load it up with mates and head to the snow! its perfect!

[Jetwreck]

All depends what you need and value.

ARX has a bit more clearance (but mine is now the height of a 250T), 18" wheels, LSD, Super HICAS and nice leather interior plus the track is 10mm wider.

AXIS is much the same but better suspension, slightly lower, NO LSD, NO Super HICAS but better quality leather interior.

250T RS can also be leather, lower suspension, 17 inch wheels.

My pick is between ARX and AXIS. Wish I got the sunroof.

The gearbox problem is to do with the V35 GT8 which has the CVT 8 speed gear box.

Cheers

Andy

Andy you forgot to add that the AR-X is king shit and all other models are poverty packs in terms of equipment and setup from standard.....shit an LSD is an option on them!!!

LOL.... awaits barrage or insults from everyone who doesn't have an AR-X .

Any model of the M35 Stagea is good.....make sure you read up on everything including the M35 info stuff before making the decision though.

Basically if you want a car to play with the Stagea is it(Although I would go for a 260RS if I had my time again).....If it's for the wife, go the Superloo with every other Joe Blow!!

[andy65b]

So many questions. LOL

Auto: The auto is probably he weakest link. reliable but just a bit slow at reacting. A bit better in tiptronic mode.

Turbo: The turbo is very liner. Starts to boost from around 2800 rpm with max torque at 3200 rpm.

The 4WD is the ATTESA system with a manual override syncro mode that gives 50/50 split up to 40kph. There is also a snow mode that starts in 2nd gear, splits torque 50/50 and reduces throttle response. The basis of the system is to the rear but puts torque to the front wheels depending on acceleration and g-sensor.

NO dual zone climate control, just single zone climate control.

Yes, the boot is awesome.

How does the automatic feel on the Stag and how is the boost response? Does the turbo kick in suddenly or is it linear like the RB25DET?

Does the AR-X have full time AWD or does it use the ATTESA-ETS?

Do Stags have dual zone climate control aircon?

I have to agree that the Stag has way more space than the Liberty. The boot alone is enormous. I had a look at one at the dealer the other day and the thought of putting in 2 subs with a few amps in the boot and still have plenty of room is almost a deal maker for me already.

[zei20l]

not to mention putting the rear seats down and two people can sleep comfortably in the back!

just to define models slightly further, RS being the base, but had pretty much all the options available to it. RX and ARX are almost identical, ARX got hicas, rear LSD and crappy ride height with the ugly beard

AXIS is an RS/RX with a kit, but had nicer leather (ok ok, it had REAL leather) and the interior was prettied up a bit

also, RS/RX models had nismo options, from looking at the brochures, nismo options were not available for ARX.

ARX also weighs in about 4365763242123454kg heavier due to it being an overweight cop

[iamhe77]

not to mention putting the rear seats down and two people can non-sleep semi-comfortably in the back!

just to define models slightly further, RS being the base, but had pretty much all the options available to it (Bose being the exception). RX and ARX are almost identical, ARX got hicas, rear LSD and crappy ride height with the ugly beard

AXIS is an RS/RX with a kit, but had nicer leather (ok ok, it had REAL leather) and the interior was prettied up a bit

also, RS/RX models had nismo options, from looking at the brochures, nismo options were not available for ARX nor Axis.

ARX also weighs in about 4365763242123454kg heavier due to it being an overweight cop FACT!

Fixed!

[zei20l]

rofl!!!

i had a nap in the back of mine, wasnt too bad! if i had a mattress or something soft i would have been fine.

ahh yes, no bose option for RS.

the weight might be wrong, but give or take about 500000kg for the correct range

[Jetwreck]

the weight might be wrong, but give or take about 500000kg for the correct range

yeh but.....OK!....you got me...it's a fat cow......must be all the equipment that comes standard!!!!

[pixel8r]

So many questions. LOL

Auto: The auto is probably he weakest link. reliable but just a bit slow at reacting. A bit better in tiptronic mode.

Turbo: The turbo is very liner. Starts to boost from around 2800 rpm with max torque at 3200 rpm.

The 4WD is the ATTESA system with a manual override syncro mode that gives 50/50 split up to 40kph. There is also a snow mode that starts in 2nd gear, splits torque 50/50 and reduces throttle response. The basis of the system is to the rear but puts torque to the front wheels depending on acceleration and g-sensor.

NO dual zone climate control, just single zone climate control.

Yes, the boot is awesome.

is your turbo stock?

The stock turbo actually STARTS boosting around 1800rpm under full throttle (boost is determined by engine load, not rpm). the VQ engine is much more torquey than the RB25 so gets you going quicker. The M35 also runs higher boost than the older stageas so you generally get better performance right across the rev range. The turbo is very linear as andy mentioned.

max torque is 407N-m which makes the subie look like a toy (although the stagea is heavier so does need the extra torque).

The AWD mentioned above is standard on all AWD stageas, not just the AR-X. All models have the synchro and snow modes as well.

The AWD system is more "tricky" than subaru's AWD. Rather than just supply a constant torque split front/rear, you get continously variable torque split anywhere between 95% rear to 50:50 split. Its computer controlled via a 16-bit processor that scans both longitudinal and latitudinal g-force sensors (so it knows exactly what forces the car is under) and also other sensors such as the ABS sensors (to know which wheels are slipping), speed, throttle position, and probably others as well. It scans all these inputs 100x a second so that gives you an idea of how quickly the system responds to wheelspin. The way it works is if it anticipates wheelspin on any wheel, it directs torque away from that wheel. The wheel in question doesn't even have to be slipping for this to happen.

This doesn't mean that ATTESA gives more traction than subaru's AWD (dont see how since the subaru is something near 50-50 split all the time) - its just cooler. you get the advantage of RWD (less drivetrain loss) when cruising and the safety of AWD when you need it.

btw one of the 3 DIN guages that come with the RS model gives you a front torque meter so you can watch the needle go up as you plant your foot (usually only in the wet)

[zei20l]

i read somewhere that automatic subarus (the current ones) arent AWD till the fronts start slipping. manuals are constant AWD. not sure how much truth there is to this however.........

[andy65b]

i read somewhere that automatic subarus (the current ones) arent AWD till the fronts start slipping. manuals are constant AWD. not sure how much truth there is to this however.........

Correct. Manual Subaru's are 50/50 split. Auto's are mostly FWD until slip is detected but still better than the Honda system.

[andy65b]

is your turbo stock?

Stock turbo but with good venting. 3 inch for the the turbo back.

It now spools much earlier. You are probably right that it boosts earlier but I always find it difficult to watch the boost as it comes on v the road where I am going as it get moving quickly at this point.

I guess the real think I notice is that in 1st gear you never feel like you have much boost till 3000rpm when the throttle will open fully.

[Paramour]

Fixed!

Nismo option does come on AXIS . . or atleast the Black AXIS at Northshore had it. .

[iamhe77]

Nismo option does come on AXIS . . or atleast the Black AXIS at Northshore had it. .

Those wheels have been on my car for nearly a year now.

That black Axis just had Nismo suspension and wheels...

There are options such as air filter, oil filter, wheels, exhaust etc that are compatible throughout the range, but if you look at things like suspension (non-ARX), Speedo cluster (non-ARX) or the Nismo kit except the rear spoiler (non-ARX or Axis), alot will not work on an ARX in particular, and the Axis to a lesser degree.

I think what Iain was alluding to was that the Nismo M35 Stagea was only available in RS or RX form

[zei20l]

yes thats exactly what i meant, like the nismo M35 that is slowly growing in my garage

[Jetwreck]

yes thats exactly what i meant, like the nismo M35 that is slowly growing in my garage

Of which there have been no posters posted!!!

And yes I am after the pic's of mine snow button pussy!!!!

[skyline_man]

Thanks to you guys, I have made up my mind and I am going to go with the Stag. I'm looking for a AR-X, but damn they're few and far at this time of the year. Looked up carsales.com and there's only 2. I'm from Adelaide and there is nothing here.

Can the headlights of the Stag take HID light, ie are they able to focus the HID properly?

Edited October 28, 2009 by skyline_man

[Daleo]

I'm looking for a AR-X, but damn they're few and far at this time of the year. Looked up carsales.com and there's only 2. I'm from Adelaide and there is nothing here.

Can the headlights of the Stag take HID light, ie are they able to focus the HID properly?

Try Northshore Prestige or Nagoya Motors, these are two dealers who've sold a few Stageas and have good reputations.

The standard low beams are HID standard, although some are removed for compliance, some not, the high beam / fog lights are H4 halogen, could be upgraded to aftermarket HID but are a bit slow to warm up for a high beam, imo.

Good luck with the search, you won't regret it!

[Daleo]

Sorry just noticed you're in Adelaide, both those dealers are in Sydney, probably not much help.

[Stooge007]

Nagoya offers "free" delivery Australia wide

[Daleo]

I got along quite well with Alex from Nagoya, wouldn't hesitate to recommend him.