Anatomy Of An Rb20det-r

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol... you do realise you were the one that brought up my car don't you?

your move sherlock....

[Nic_A31]

You put it in your signature - this is a forum...more importantly...the Internet, anything you type is up for extreme criticism, so, yes it is my move, and I say you're JDM sig doesn't make you any more helpful on this topic because you've contributed nothing useful.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol... no my JDM sig doesn't make me any more helpful...

can i have a pound of what you guys are on?

[R31Nismoid]

nismoid, tone down the arrogance dude. it's discussion time, not 'i'm right you're wrong shutup' time. chill the f**k out.

so, i've gathered now -

RB20DET-R was in race-spec vehicles, with race-spec external modifications.

800 units were made, some of which used and built as group A race engines here in oz, some used in japan for race, rest kept as standard red-top eccs in GTS-Rs. yeah?

Skaife's was f**king boss.

The hard-revving sound isn't actually hard revving.

I am chilled out.

It just does not help when the OP forgets to turn the brain into the "ON" position.

As for the rest - go consult google. You've missed what we've all said once again by asking about homologation motors being built into race ones (more importantly the part about non factory blocks)

[Dorigecko]

lol... no my JDM sig doesn't make me any more helpful...

can i have a pound of what you guys are on?

intelligence?

nismoid, homologation engines aren't what i was really asking about. i was asking about one specific race engine, skaife's. so how about I just ask what the difference is between Skaife's RB20 and a regular RB20 you would have found in a street GTS-R. does that make it easier?

reiterate some shit dude. "Race RB20's have different blocks what you can't get - anywhere. so forget it. buy a good manifold, boost the f**k out of an engine and disable the rev limit. problem solved" - i'd be cool with a reply like that. stupid, but would save a lot of confusion.

[R31Nismoid]

So after 3 pages we've finally got to the real question - took longer than i expect but at least we've reached that point none the less.

What was different? Everything, more than most people will know.

So lets get to the REAL questions that mean something.

1. How much power do you want.

2. What is the use of the car

3. What is the budget

Not saying what was done in 1988/89 was wrong, however it is now 2009 so there is likely a better way of doing it. I mean what would be the point of 20 years of R&D otherwise.

What GMS did back then was ground breaking, no doubt, however im sure it could be done better in todays world.

[The Dan]

I would like to add that the high revving sound of the RACE SPEC engine in SKAIFE'S CAR was actually HIGH REVVING.

The only things you need to achieve that sound is long inlet and exhaust runners to put your torque curve into the upper rev limits and a cylinder head that can flow. Race Spec engines had larger valves from memory and obviously were touched up on the port side to flow better. 20's rev high anyway, I used to rev mine to 9k every day with a standard cylinder head and most people who knew it would tell you it sounded like the car wanted to swallow up other cars on the road.

If it's the sound you are after, then you won't be able to road drive it. Skaife's car had a very short system so it's not going to be something you could use unfortunately. You could get 3/4 of the way there though.

[Angry]

lmao

Ok... my turn.

RB20DET-R

is...

Redtop HR31 RB20 ECCS - GTSR Version

Inlet Plenum is as Stock ECCS. Including Inlet Runner Butterflys (also found in the NICS RB20s)

Pistons would be forged of some description...

GTSR Camshafts are apparently slightly different to the stock RB20 Redtop Camshafts to combat the doughy shitful non responsive - stock T04E turbo.

Exhaust manifold.. is completely different (everyones point of interest in GTSR engines isnt it)

HR31 Redtop Blocks all shared slightly thicker cylinder walls.. ie can be bored out further than your silvertop block. and i mean slightly... to infer that they are magic or even of nismo orgin ud be mistaken..

Internally.. they were all the same.. crank rods pistons .. all the same.

key differnce in the redtop head to a silvertop head is the inlet port arrangement

redtops have 12individual ports. each in pairs.

silvertop ports are similar in size but arent individually separated like the redtop ones. like a Siamese port you could say.

obviously management for the HR31 GTSRs were to eb different to the HR31 GTS/X engines for the turbo and exhaust system they have from factory.

when it comes to the race engines

throw all of the above out of the window

exhaust manifolds on the race engines are completely different again. (i have one)

big aggressive cams .. head work. ..inlet plenums have the butterflys removed also .. .

bottom ends are counter weighed and balanced .. etc rods i beleve tehy use were still stock units .. with the usual shotpeenin and balancing, likewise with the crank.

blocks like in any usual race prepd car are blueprinted and balanced etc.

managment is far from stock .. they no longer use the AFM . although it may appear still connected in teh engine bay for "technical race legalitys"

pretty sure the exGMS HR31 Racecars running in the historics at the moment are developing somewhere in the 300rwkw region. a stock GTSR engine would have a fit getting close to that level.

race engine exhaust manifolds look like this

Edited October 29, 2009 by Angry

[mad082]

intelligence?

nismoid, homologation engines aren't what i was really asking about. i was asking about one specific race engine, skaife's. so how about I just ask what the difference is between Skaife's RB20 and a regular RB20 you would have found in a street GTS-R. does that make it easier?

reiterate some shit dude. "Race RB20's have different blocks what you can't get - anywhere. so forget it. buy a good manifold, boost the f**k out of an engine and disable the rev limit. problem solved" - i'd be cool with a reply like that. stupid, but would save a lot of confusion.

well that is extremely easy to answer. make a list of every party in an engine. that will be the list of all the parts that were changed between the road version of the engine and the engine that is in skaife's race car. i'm not being a smart arse or anything, just making a simple fact.

the whole point of the gts-r is a bit like the GTR. nissan knew that their base model car wouldn't win races in group a, so they added bits to the car to make it perform better (because people couldn't simply bolt on the goodies themselves to make it go better, they could only enhance what was already there), then sold just enough of them to make it legal to race it in group a (although in the case of the gtr it was very popular so they built more).

[bozodos]

you want one of these turbos http://www.r31house.co.jp/tako_top.html with the exh manifold, put em on a NICS motor and you're (kinda) there!

[Wheezy]

A little birdie told me that the Gibson HR31's ran Cosworth pistons, how much truth to this statement is anyone's guess. Listen to Angry and Nismoid they have a fair idea and I wont bother re-iterating what they have said. If you want an RB20 that sounds and goes like that, grab yourself a R31 House Manifold and big ass turbocharger and put a side pipe on.

In other news Freddie Gibson blew a load on each dog box so 5th wouldn't die all the time.

This thread is as useless as my second statement......

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol

[T04GTR]

cool. so just if no one has got it yet..

a rb20detr from factory makes 225hp stock 195hp.

the only diferance from 20r so normal 20 is the turbo/ex manifold and ecu. and front mount intercooler.

the race motor is way differant. just the same as the gms gtr's having a "v spec motor" etc etc. nothing factory but the head castings

[T04GTR]

ps. i want that ex manifold!! but who can do that king of custom bending?

[Duncan]

personally if you want to know what has been done internally to the 32 gtsr race motors, I'd ask Jetwreck (Craig) on these forums as he owns one and has had to rebuild it a number of times over the years.

but as has been said above....if you are trying to work out what to do yourself, forget what they did 20 years ago. Everything has come a very long way since then, and they were limited by regulations anyway.

[Dorigecko]

was more of a history lesson for me, less of a 'how can i build one' lesson, but equally useful.

last couple posts i very much appreciate, thank you.

mate's RB20 should make 300hp with standard internals, but flow work will be on the cards. else i'll smash his nuts with a rock, caveman style.

thanks guys.

mods if you like, delete all posts that are shit. for future reference and whatnot.