Want To Build A Block

[Messiah]

Hi all,

I'm the kind of person who likes making things, i find it leads to a great feeling of satisfaction.

One of the things i've always wanted to build was an engine. Do it over an semi extended period, from the ground up, see how it all goes together then maybe drop it into my current car (a gt25st)

Never done anything like it before, and none of my mates are mechanics/engine builders, and working full time and studying some other things on the side its hard to find more time to do the tafe thing.

I know its a big complex job for someone with no build experience so i'm not even going to think of going it alone.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a start?

Should i just start buying bits, buy a service manual and offering people with the right experience cases of beer to give me a hand??

[mad082]

how big of a budget do you have to do it with? if you are tight on money then i wouldn't build a motor for your skyline. i'd do something like an old 202 or a datsun motor. parts for them will be dirt cheap and also getting a workshop manual will be much easier. sure they won't have all the extra technology of injectors and all that sort of thing, but the general mechanics are the same, and if you happen to stuff something up there's no great loss and you haven't lost a heap of money. for a newbie the lack of technology would be a good thing

[Daewoo]

There are two parts to building a motor, bottom end and top end... bottom end is about reliability, top end about power.

I reckon, get an old Nissan RB30 motor for a hundred bucks or free, and strip it down...

Send all the bits to an engine rebuilder to put through their parts washer...

Get them, to measure the pistons to see if you can re-use them... (they are actually measuring the size of the bore and the piston so see if they are OK. If not they bore the engine and you need to buy next size up pistons)...

Get them to measure the crank to see if it needs to be ground...

You might want to get everything balanced (but you need to buy your clutch first if you are going to do that)... and maybe get the rods linished (smooth out the castings to lessen weak spots) and shotpeened (to harden them a bit)...

Other than that, it is just a matter of putting it all together with new rings, bearings, and gaskets...

Top end, get another RB25 head, you can just get the valves re-cutt and reassemble...

Any manual will give you instructions on how to do it and all this is cheap to do, and will be pretty reliable until you start messing with the top end and turbos to make more HP...

It isn't going to set the world on fire performance wise, and won't be reliable if you mate up a truck turbo, but you will have built it yourself... probably under $1000 total...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Edited March 18, 2010 by Daewoo

[Messiah]

Budgets no biggy, i wont be doing monster builds, but i dont want to skimp either.

I know i could build something really low tech as a intro, but i'd like to do something that requires me to do things the right way and take the required care and attention.

Also if i build an old cheap block for sometihng i'd have no idea what to do with it at the end, never mind having something to run it in.

Building a motor for the line has the added appeal of having something at the end of it all that i can say "i built that.... mostly.... with help".

[Messiah]

Cheers Daewoo, thats the kind of advice i was hoping to find.

Given all you said, and lets assume i spend the money on good quality parts/balancing work etc what potential for performance is there??

Is it a case of dont even try one day making big power if i build it myself or is it simply do the right prep, follow the instructions, and it should come out solid.

[lachlanw]

rips rate a standard properly rebuilt rb30det to 600hp and 7200 rpm . but they are first class rebuilds . so yeah the potential is there if you put tthe effort in

[Swiper the Fox]

The biggest cost is tooling up to do it. I have spent $1000's on measuring equipment, parts washers, engine stands, presses etc...not to mention spanners, sockets and the like. Most of this stuff is necessary to do the work you want to undertake it properly.

Id say if you have the money go for it...as a meticulous carefully measured build can be a lot more reliable than a rushed one done at a workshop that is more focused on turnover than anything else. Just make sure that everything is cleaned properly prior to assembly...as this is what kills most builds earlier than anything.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Swiper the Fox

[Messiah]

Yeah tooling is one of those things that is in the back of my mind, from what little i know i know there are some steps that take more than just knowledge and will to do (heating/cooling parts so they fit etc).

Regarding time, are there any parts of a build that are considered time critical. eg, if you install part A you only have a limited time to do procedure B before you have the pull a off and start again? by that i dont mean things where you cant leave it a few mins, but rather where a few weeks between work is too long.

Oh and anyone want to volunteer to give me feed back on my planned build when i finally sit down and figure it out. I'm thnking rb30 with twins could be nice, nothing too highly strung, just solid.

[Sean W]

as said above (by a bloke who knows what hes talking about) cleanliness is key, so ive heard seen people cling wrap motors every time they stop working on it for the day. That way in your case it wont matter if you leave it for a while.

[mad082]

a thought i just had was that if you aren't in a rush to do it, start by pulling the engine down and putting it back together with the stock parts. the reason i say this is that then you have a bit more of an idea of how to put it back together and you don't run as much risk of damaging the new parts. even if you don't put the whole engine together. just like after you pull the pistons out or something like that, try dummy fitting them back in. and do it before you send all the stuff off to get inspected and cleaned so that if something does happen to get damaged they can sort it out for you. that way when it comes to putting it back in properly you aren't learning on new parts which if it turns bad could end up costing you more money.

and remember, use a genuine nissan headgasket and only a genuine nissan headgasket (unless you go a much more expensive one)

[Messiah]

good idea Mad, think i'll do that if i can. Still dont know what bits i'll get and where. But if i buy parts separately i could maybe still pick up a blown engine to pull apart for practice.

[VB-]

things that imeadiately come to mind:

-get a quality service manual to tell you clearences and torque specs on EVERYTHING, and in which order it goes together.

-get a quality torque wrench, and measurment gear, and make sure you know how to use em properly, again the internet is helpful.

- keep everything clean enough to eat off

[Duncan]

actually a basic bottom end rebuild is a very simple thing.

assuming you get a machine shop to check and hone the block, and check the crank, the rest is pretty easy. the trick is in cleaning it properly as said above, and not trusting the machine shop. At a minimum you need to use plastiguage to check nothing silly has happened with clearances.

From there you the only specialist tools are a good torque wrench and maybe an angle gauge. stretch gauge as well for the rod bolts if you want to be very serious.

I've built a heap of bottom ends and have no mechanical background....and it is easy enough. I've never made a mistake that caused a failure, just double or tripple check everything before you put it together.

BTW i don't see how any bottom end is much easier or much harder to work with. heads maybe but not bottom end.

[SECURITY]

BTW i don't see how any bottom end is much easier or much harder to work with. heads maybe but not bottom end.

try working on a cg8 or any other boxer engine. they're super fun to work with on the first go

my opinion is going rb30. there is a guide you can follow, plenty of threads you can read and tonnes of support for it.

in-tune performance in penshurst quoted me for my rb30:

check journals + supply big end and main bearings: $160

balance crank/rods/pistons: $200 (i think) crank itself is $60.

supply and fit crank collar for larger drive on DET oil pump: $350

get them to do all the checks on the crank (like whip).

there wouldnt be any other place id take my balancing and machining to, these guys have a great reputation and know RB's.

personally i'd buy a RIPS bottom end (cheap) and learn to put together a head, its much harder - if you can do a head you can do an RB bottom end - no worries. if you've got time, do both.

slap it together and you've got a monster of an engine.

ive got a pdf of the r33/32/gtst/gtr workshop manual. pm me if you'd like it.

Edited March 19, 2010 by SECURITY