A Step by Step Guide to STOP THE CHANGES to the 15 Year Rule

[Snowman]

It wasn't mean to be childish - I appologise. I was just trying to give a comparison to cars considered in league with the Oz delivered R32's that haven't been influenced by grey imports out of Japan. I hope you can see that now. Utter crap was a bad choice of words and written without thinking. I will just say that this is my opinion on the matter. I have an R34 and will be affected by depreciation more than most but I knew that when I bought the car and dont expect it to change due to my experience with the NSX. This is regardless of what happens with DOTARS or RAWS. Some say the with the R34 GTR VSpec on its own RAWS maybe no more will be brought in and the value will hold. I personally don't think so.

[GTR R35]

I have read all the posts and think there are very few legitimate arguments for the 15yo law as it stands.

The government brought in the new RAWS scheme to try to rid the grey import industry of shonky people bringing in crappy cars. There were 100's of cars that had their milage fiddled, flood damaged or accident damaged and this undermined a healthy industry. They were selling disguised cars of questionable quality cheaper than the good quality cars that the legitimate importers had. This caused a snowballing effect and there were huge differences in price (R34 GTR from $85k-$120k). The government in their narrow minded views thought they would need to put a stop to it....and as usual they stuffed up a good industry.

What we see now is reputable importers trying to get RAWS approval by jumping through unrealistic hoops to get one model approval and having to wait 6 months to get it.......while all the shonky importers are just bringing in CRAP 15yo imports and undermining the industry.

I am suprised we have had no comment from legit importers on this thread telling us how hard (almost impossible) it is to make a living while waiting for approvals.

This arguiment is not about little johnny wanting a $10k GTR because he cannot afford it. It is about how a government can stuff up something so fast and then try to backtrack even faster.

We must seem like total morons to the Japs as they have seen NZ stop the importation of the old cars because of safety/quality reasons.....only to see us silly Aussies allow them....Jap cars are cheap because they are generally not looked after and are turned over quickly. I am also suprised there are so many 15yo cars left in Japan, they must be going around to wreaking yards and putting them back together again.

The RAWS guys should be the only ones who should be allowed to bring in any imports (except personal) as they have paid the money and gone through all the BS, at least we know they have some accreditaion, unlike these dodgy fly by night importers selling crap and hurting everyone.

Mal

[zsky]

it would be cool if tassie had seperate laws for imports to the rest of australia being an island and all but still be part of australia.

would be a nice way of increasing tassies population

[DRIFTT]

GTAAH will vouch for me dealing with RAWS every day.

I work with a lot of RAWS in 4 different states and all up they would have $600,000 plus invested and only just seeing a return, because they are doing what the government says, it is like they are being punished. But they are acepting it because the decision is made and getting on with their lives. To them changing the 15 year rule is like the Government protecting their investment, you want a import you get a clean car through somebody who is accountable to the govenment.

Most of them deal in cars under 10 years of age but for every 15 year car that comes in it goes against the quota that the government wants imports capped at a simple fact, it is these groups that the government listen to and all the ones I know have voted option B.

Below will never happen as you are bringing in conditions that are nothing to do with the submission about 15 year old cars so why make more trouble, damaged cars you have to be kidding me.

2. Modified vehicles can be complied.

4. Allow damaged and previously repaired vehicles to be imported, though require them to be identified as such, so that any downstream buyer will be aware.

5. Allow for individuals to apply for the Import Approval, not just RAWS (who will still do the compliance work).

6. Tyres only need to be changed if they are not roadworthy

What is the argument justifying 15 year imports when the reason as to why the rule came in was for;

In 1992 a new Regulation was added which stipulated that vehicles 15 or more years old must be approved for importation. The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use.

[rockysilvia]

And for those of your who say that "you don't buy your cars for their resale value, you obviously haven't owned a car yet that has dropped $20,000 in 6 months, so lets just keep things in perspective, okay?

Merli, are you telling me that with all your economics knowledge, you didn't realise when you bought your GTR that you were going to lose a heap of money when the 'more desirable' 15 year old cars became available for importation under this rule?

Its not like this rule jumped up out of the blue 2 months ago and caught you unaware. It has been clear for years that when the later model skylines, silvias, mr2's etc became available to bring in by these means, then there would be a lot of people taking this path, rather than buying the later model cars.

You are not being suddenly robbed by the 15 year rule existing and there is no need to cry foul. What has actually happened is that you didn't use the 'simple & accurate' supply and demand theories to do a bit of market prediction for the future, and you have been caught offguard.

[ian]

....

The reason the NSX depreciated from $250,000 to $90,000 is because they weren't worth $250,000 to start with (Personal opinion)

And the reason R32 GTR's have depreciated so far is that Australians paid 100,000 for them when in Japan they paid about half that! This price difference being a direct result of the trade barriers in place to stop competitive imports.

Thus in Japan they have gone from 50K to say 12K over 15 years, where in Aus they have gone from 100k to 25K over the same time. Wow, they have dropped about the same percentage over that time! What a surprise! It's just a hell of a lot more money in Aus due to the inflated price at the start! Which wouldn't have happened if we had allowed parallel imports back then!

The obvious answer from the consumer point of view, is drop all the barriers and let there be competition!

[ian]

You are not being suddenly robbed by the 15 year rule existing and there is no need to cry foul. What has actually happened is that you didn't use the 'simple & accurate' supply and demand theories to do a bit of market prediction for the future, and you have been caught offguard.

You're using logic, which I don't think is fair :-) :-)

[predator]

.. I am with you there on that one driftt.. option #4 was I think was badly thought out and likely to do more harm than good. It undermines a lot of what they're trying to do if everybody just goes and clicks "#4" just because its one of the options *not* on the list. Although it may make them think a little as to *why* but I'd say this is maybe dawning on them a little already - the demand is there and supply is not being met by RAWS (yet at least). Whether they care or not is the questionable factor!

And I mean the government is quite clear, they want one of 3.. not another one there... BUT in the wording of their submissions document the language at least, seems to be favouring option #2 - which I know I personally am not so fussed about. It brings into line 15 year cars with RAWS for models that are pretty much the same anyhow, stops people brining in the "fear factor" cars en mass such as R32 GTR, most S13, even GTS-T, and in future stops the margin floating towards increasing cars in the future (15 years come 1990, 1991, etc).

I can see however that if people have nothing to gain by it going or staying they're not going to put any option down, but that is to be expected. I mean I'm sure whatever is said here is not changes the minds of people who think its a good idea the 15 year rule was scrapped or encourage them to really give a crap

[GeneralSpeed]

Let the imports in. All you idiots whinging about resale value because you paid 60k for your GTR's are almost exclusively the same people who make very nice livings from supply and demand economics. Hypocrites. How about we totally screw the supply and demand in the industries YOU work and see how much you like it.

Point is - imports are popular, and continue to be popular. The irony is that all these people who make their incomes from the free market are the first to support government intervention into a market where they stand to lose, not gain. Once again - hypocrites.

[The_Paladin]

i think it's quite stupid that people are worried about their jap cars loosing value........

yes to an extent they will (logically) but anyone who buys a car under the age of 40 and expects it to gain value is a tool, to put it bluntly..............sure there's limited edition, modding etc. but i'm talking about stock standard stuff, like skylines. they loose value, dont buy them if you dont want to loose money.

i've been looking into Soarers. they're crazy for how much they cost now. one import site quoted they're worth something like 16% of their original value after 10 years!!!! jap cars loose value and fast.............so if you just want to retain value, you'd be better with something european, or a honda, they seem to keep the value quite well for some odd reason.....

bring in the imports...............more on the road means they'll be treated like less of an ethnic minority on the road. i think jap import drivers would get harassed less if there were more on them.................very easy to pick on the few.

feck the local market............the money goes overseas anyway (asides from the jobs and stuff)

[The_Paladin]

*NOTE

when i said in my last post that honda's have a good resale value. i wasnt talking about the NSX

[DRIFTT]

Look at who made the Government can the Surfs and other 4WD's so do you think in 1990 they want the 80 series Landcruiser to come in.

The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for restoration and club use.

I havent heard a good reason yet to allow older cars imported with nothing to do with the original scope of the ruling.

[PTR33]

Anyone who thinks they can buy a car, even a limited edition/special/etc, and actually drive it and not lose money is delusional.

C'mon guys. you bought your cars to drive, because you like cars. If you were one of the first you probably paid a higher price just like any early adopter. Do you see anyone trying to stop the import/sale of cheap DVD players because they bought one for $2000 when DVD's were first out and these cheap ones will devalue their one?

Face it. Having toys costs money, especially if you have one before everyone else. That's why you paid the big bucks. To now turn around and say that no-one else should be allowed to buy one now that they are cheap is just plain greedy and very bad sport. Very unAustralian you might say.

I say make sure that the safety side of things is up to scratch and BRING IT ON.

[GTR R35]

Some of the lame comments here seem to revolve around the depreciation of cars. I am not saying that IF the 15yo law was scrapped, that all current imports would hold or gain their values, all I am saying is that if you flood a market with cheap imports, the price will drop FASTER and HARDER than they would with a constant supply, like we will see with the RAWS imports. I do not think that anyone would buy a skyline/import and expect it to increase in value, but this new system has caused the market to fall, and its only going to get worse. By the end of this year there will be over 6000+ more 15yo imports, mainly toyota;s and nissans of exotic natures, not stock corollas and pulsars. They will be cheap and this WILL cause a significant drop in the overall values of MOST second hand cars. If you have $10k in your pocket, you will suddenly have a whole schmorgas board of cars to choose from. While this is not bad to have choices, the problem will be oversupply.

There is a diference between a free market and a extorted market. The 15yo law has shown that you cannot let kids loose in the candy store or they will eat what they can and take the rest. We have always heard how Japs turn their cars over every 2 years to avoid the high price of Shekken (rego inspection) yet where are all these old cars comming from ? My bet is most have been sitting in wreakers for years waiting for some country dumb enough to buy them.......and guess what we are and we will suffer in many ways. Control is good if used right. They need to shut this loophole fast before we have 20,000 HiPo jap sh1tboxes on our roads.

Mal

[The_Paladin]

BRING IT ON

um.......4doorGTR if the market is flooded then prices go down. that's good for the consumer, many people (like myself) WANT the price of skylines etc to go down. it makes them affordable for us and its just one less way to stop class divison. a nice car would become less of a status symbol if they were cheaper, it would be harder for people to think they're hot stuff cause they drive a skyline. if there were more imports it could ease the negative stigma they have because they wouldnt be some small obscure group. it would be harder for people/cop/media to generalise jap import drivers cause there would be much more of them..............

oversupply, its a good thing for the people (consumer). its bad for the companies or anyone wanting to sell their skyline (supplyer).

oh and for those hoping their car would go up in price? are you planning the same for your computer? same kind of thing..............

[Grim]

Prestige Motorsport are the ones driving this campaign to prevent the changes in 15yo law because they have the most to loose. They love receiving a full broker fee on the 15yo cars that take bugger all time to import and get on-road compared to cars that actually need compliancing. Prestige have gone to the extreme of no longer taking on customers who are after cars that need compliancing just so they can cash in on the fast turnover of 15yo imports.

Personally, I dont want to see the law changed.....there are a lot of great 15yo cars and I hate that car companies in Australia have the power to influence government to limit the choices of the people to suit themselves.

[Merli]

Okay, seriously... Those like The_Paladin who say things like "oh and for those hoping their car would go up in price"... Have you ever READ what we have posted? Because NO-ONE has said ANYTHING to that effect. You have PURELY pulled that out of where the sun don't shine, and I HATE having words put in my mouth by people trying to better their argument because they have nothing else to argue on.

We have said that we would like to limit the depreciation rate of our cars. We would like to lose a little money as possible through depreciation. OH WOW!!! You mean we don't want to lose an excessive amount on our cars??? Wow, we're so selfish aren't we??

I DON'T want the Skyline to be a cheap car.

I DON'T want 17 year olds driving $20,000 GTRs

I DON'T want everyone driving Skylines because there are 40,000 of them in the country and the market oversaturation have driven the price down so any old joe-blow can own one.

I think it's obvious this argument is seperated punters into two groups.

1. People who already own an import and wish to LIMIT their depreciation and people who don't want every kid fresh out of school driving an import and giving our community a ban name after taking a corner at 2nd gear redline and writing off his R33 GTR.

2. People who can't afford a nice import, and hope that the prices will go down so that they CAN afford one.

Pretty simple really, and quite predictable... So calling people in the other group "stupid", "idiots", "tool" or "delusional"... All you're doing it detracting from your argument by making yourself look bad.

The_Paladin, I just went back and read a previous post of yours and saw this: "yes to an extent they will (logically) but anyone who buys a car under the age of 40 and expects it to gain value is a tool"

You have read NOTHING of our case and you are just blabbing pure bullshit. Stop putting words in our mouths. YOU'RE the only person who has posted anything to the effect of us expecting our cars to increase in value... Perhaps you should look in the mirror or the glare of your computer monitor before calling other people "tools" for trying to LIMIT their asset depreciation. How old are you anyway?

[predator]

Personally, I dont want to see the law changed.....there are a lot of great 15yo cars and I hate that car companies in Australia have the power to influence government to limit the choices of the people to suit themselves.

:werd:

If it wasn't for dealers trying to push the envelope and try and keep their business running this never would have been a problem. But of course, businesses look for a business an opportunity and grab it, can't fault them for that. But it will mean others will suffer.

I havent heard a good reason yet to allow older cars imported with nothing to do with the original scope of the ruling.

exactly.. because there isn't one - but that is part of the whole problem. Now rather than being changed to fix problems such as this it is simply being eliminated altogether. Typical government narrowmindedness.

[fatz]

i love the 15 year rule

if it wasnt there i wouldnt have my lovely r31 gtsx

everyone that wants to get rid of the rule as far as im concerned are all a bunch of tools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! might be harsh but hey live with it

i have never seen a bigger buch of cry babies in my life

get over your depreciation, get over some 17 year old driving a fast car... its the way of the world. people do what they want... are you going to stop every young person getting into a fast car

such a shame i wouldnt have minded bringing in a 89 m3 for cheap.. guess ill have to buy a 88 m3

or maybe ill wait for those cheap r33 gtrs to come around for 25 grand and let my 18 year old rother drive it lol

u r all gay!!!

long live the 15 year rule

pete

[R34GTRNUR]

why would u wanna drive a car 15yrs old newaiz...like fcuk man