Kando Dynamics Turbo

[GeorgesR34]

Its also a car that has pon cams, cam gears and 28psi of peek boost. without the extra mods and ponding I think it is comparable with HG's normal SS2 turbo. While the vnt SS2 is 10psi ahead reaching peek 22psi by 3500rpms, the difference in peek power between the two is 7kws while the pon cams and extra boost should make enough power to cover the differences between the variance in the dynos. I'm looking forward to reliable VNT turbos, wondering if Chequered tuning has any HTA results for comparison.

[SimonR32]

yea i was going by simons but yes that was on a hub maybe ill push mine up 28 for couple runs on dyno see what it can go for comparrision were thinkin 350 on 20-21 on mainline.

Also agree i think it may run into reliability issues with moving parts it has but its a low bosst pressure for the power its making

Mine with the Vipec and poncams made 35 more killerwasps than when it did 360rwkw on a dyno dynamics so I would say almost on par. Response is hard to tell on different dynos because they load up different ways but the HTA looks impressive. Wouldn't mind 34GeeTeeTee loading up 4th on the road and finding out when it makes 15psi?

Price wise looks like the HTA would set you back a good $1700 more to install than a Kando T67 which is why they are still an awesome option.

Either way I'm impressed, trying to get my mate with a GT3076R to upgrade to a HTA3582R for his track R34 Gtt

Edited May 27, 2013 by SimonR32

[Lithium]

Its also a car that has pon cams, cam gears and 28psi of peek boost. without the extra mods and ponding I think it is comparable with HG's normal SS2 turbo. While the vnt SS2 is 10psi ahead reaching peek 22psi by 3500rpms, the difference in peek power between the two is 7kws while the pon cams and extra boost should make enough power to cover the differences between the variance in the dynos. I'm looking forward to reliable VNT turbos, wondering if Chequered tuning has any HTA results for comparison.

Probably too many levels of extrapolation going on to really tell too much - we don't know how much power one or the other has as an advantage due to varying factors, it'd be interesting to see a comparison with an normal SS2 but I would be pretty surprised/impressed if the SS2 can match it. The 28psi is a peak figure, dropping straight from that point and 391rwkw was achieved on 24psi.

Mine with the Vipec and poncams made 35 more killerwasps than when it did 360rwkw on a dyno dynamics so I would say almost on par. Response is hard to tell on different dynos because they load up different ways but the HTA looks impressive. Wouldn't mind 34GeeTeeTee loading up 4th on the road and finding out when it makes 15psi?

Price wise looks like the HTA would set you back a good $1700 more to install than a Kando T67 which is why they are still an awesome option.

Either way I'm impressed, trying to get my mate with a GT3076R to upgrade to a HTA3582R for his track R34 Gtt

To be fair I expect the T67 and HTA3076 to be capable of very similar power, they both seemed to be viewed as around 59-60lb/min turbos so that wouldn't surprise me at all - and yes, the T67 represents exceptional value for money... like anything in this game the extra cost doesn't tend to present a proportional increase in performance, but you definitely to get the higher level. An HTA3582 would probably be every bit as good to drive as the T67, and it sounds a bit like 34GeeTeeTee's is closer to a TD06-20G in response so I'd guess what you are paying for is having the same power with the response of the next size down.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

(and again the VNT was on a hub dyno)

a hub dyno that has been proven time and time again to be no different to a roller.

just because someone in another state likes to run his hub dyno in happy mode doesn't mean everyone else does the same

can we please stop debating this and accept the figures for what they are... accurate

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

also, I would like to see the FP '76 run on 20psi for comparative purposes as most people are too scared to run 24 spiking to 28 on an unopened block. It would give us a better idea of haw far ahead it really is

not saying to go make a special trip, but if it happens to be on the rollers again, hook us up 34geeteetee

[34GeeTeeTee]

also, I would like to see the FP '76 run on 20psi for comparative purposes as most people are too scared to run 24 spiking to 28 on an unopened block. It would give us a better idea of haw far ahead it really is

not saying to go make a special trip, but if it happens to be on the rollers again, hook us up 34geeteetee

You mean 28 down to 24

AND that was just the hero run, it was actually backed off a bit to run 387kw but i am yet to see the final boost, i have the PDFs coming.

I do have a run of that boost too where i believe it made 360kw but ill get the dyno sheets before giving you the wrong info! I didnt have time to get them when i was there but will have all the info soon!

Its currently on E56 and low boost (20ish) and its a LOT more lively that it was before on 24psi and E70 which is a good sign!

[34GeeTeeTee]

Mine with the Vipec and poncams made 35 more killerwasps than when it did 360rwkw on a dyno dynamics so I would say almost on par. Response is hard to tell on different dynos because they load up different ways but the HTA looks impressive. Wouldn't mind 34GeeTeeTee loading up 4th on the road and finding out when it makes 15psi?

Price wise looks like the HTA would set you back a good $1700 more to install than a Kando T67 which is why they are still an awesome option.

Either way I'm impressed, trying to get my mate with a GT3076R to upgrade to a HTA3582R for his track R34 Gtt

Happy to do the test for you man but you will need to wait a few weeks unfortunatley as the car will be locked up and ill be interstate! I wont even get to try high boost before i go

Yes it cost more but for me it was the only option moving forward, the HTA3073 was considered and then the HTA3582 was also considerd BUT my goal was a tad more power with better response which i have acheived and then some! The HTA3582 would be a very potent combo BUT for an unopened block and Headgasket i wasnt even going to consider going over 400kw, hell i didnt think i was going to 391kw lol, i was happy to go over 373kw and have the magic 500rwhp! I think the 3073 would be a wild street combo too!

I dont have a boost gauge to show so ill have to learn to Datalog etc, ill get some help when i get back and see if i can get you the info i need!

Just for reference it was cracking gate on the Freeway (100-110km/h) in the low 3000 mark in 5th gear lol

Around town it feels very lively!

[Lithium]

also, I would like to see the FP '76 run on 20psi for comparative purposes as most people are too scared to run 24 spiking to 28 on an unopened block. It would give us a better idea of haw far ahead it really is

not saying to go make a special trip, but if it happens to be on the rollers again, hook us up 34geeteetee

Running it on 20psi proves nothing - you could think this turbo is no better than the old GT3076R aside from coming on a bit earlier at that boost level. Sure, the 28-24psi spike is going to make the midrange look artificially higher but in most cases that is actually the reason a car with a similar setup will make more torque than another, unless one has a restriction (which CAN be the turbo maxing out). If you want to see where it hits 20psi, follow the dyno plot to that point.

Also I am not at all convinced of the hub dyno vs rolling road dyno comparison being equal in this case - when we were discussing this HTA3076 upgrade I investigated lots of JEM's dyno results to get a feel for what to predict the power potential of it as, the numbers which are coming from the hub dyno in this thread and the HG one are often showing cars with stock cams etc making similar or more power per psi than what you would see at JEM's dyno with cams/head work etc. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, as I like to be able to see the wood for the trees and help EVERYONE improve their understanding of everything but I am just calling it how I see it at this stage.

[methz]

my kando t67-25g on stock rb25 on united 85 in 3/4th I make 21psi right on 4k if loaded up down low say from 40kmph in 3rd or 60kmph in 4th.. and on roller makes 340rwkw on 22psi.. so pretty much same as HG if not more as his are hub results.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Running it on 20psi proves nothing - you could think this turbo is no better than the old GT3076R aside from coming on a bit earlier at that boost level. Sure, the 28-24psi spike is going to make the midrange look artificially higher but in most cases that is actually the reason a car with a similar setup will make more torque than another, unless one has a restriction (which CAN be the turbo maxing out). If you want to see where it hits 20psi, follow the dyno plot to that point.

I'm not talking response, I was referring to the whole plot... it would be nice to see what it looked like and i believe would be better for comparative purposes.

it's easier to look at a run on his on 20 that get everyone else to run theirs on 28

Also I am not at all convinced of the hub dyno vs rolling road dyno comparison being equal in this case - when we were discussing this HTA3076 upgrade I investigated lots of JEM's dyno results to get a feel for what to predict the power potential of it as, the numbers which are coming from the hub dyno in this thread and the HG one are often showing cars with stock cams etc making similar or more power per psi than what you would see at JEM's dyno with cams/head work etc. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, as I like to be able to see the wood for the trees and help EVERYONE improve their understanding of everything but I am just calling it how I see it at this stage.

But there you are only comparing it to the JEM dyno, which in itself may read differently to other rollers.

All i was saying was that trent's hub dyno uses the appropriate correction and is always within a few kw of your run of the mill DD / mainline roller.

[Lithium]

I'm not talking response, I was referring to the whole plot... it would be nice to see what it looked like and i believe would be better for comparative purposes.

it's easier to look at a run on his on 20 that get everyone else to run theirs on 28

I know, but running it on 20psi means all you are looking at is response - so what other point is there of him running it at 20psi? A level 24psi does make more sense for a sensible comparison versus 28-24, but any lower than that is kindof stupid if we are talking about advantages of different turbos. His turbo CAN run a level 24psi - if someone else can't or won't, then guts... the advantage to this setup is that it can and has been run to that level and make the numbers it does on that. The reason it didn't do it with the GT3076R is he couldn't - again, he upgraded partly so he could do that.

So actually for comparative purposes it makes MUCH more sense for other people to try and run 24psi if you or they want to see the real advantage - R34GeeTeeTee has stepped up to prove what its worth. If others aren't going to or won't prove that theirs can match or better it, bummer. IMHO. Running his at 20psi would just be showing what it would be like if it couldn't run more boost, ie if it were an inferior turbo

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

I just don't' see the validity in comparing results when a car is running 40% more boost and a similar sized turbo.

Most people don't stop at 20 odd psi because they reach the point of inefficiency, but because they chose not to grenade their motors.

not saying that his motor will die because of the boost, just that 20 is where most people chose to stop without pushing for more.

my car popped a vac line on the dyno and ran up 30 something psi. It made a shit tonne more power than the same point on 20psi before we pulled the run (@ 5500 odd revs) but we never tried to tune it on that boost. considering that's smaller than a 3076 I would imagine most similar setups have more to give than 20psi but people are for want of a better word... scared

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

anyway... agree to disagree no point staying so far off topic

[34GeeTeeTee]

I just don't' see the validity in comparing results when a car is running 40% more boost and a similar sized turbo.

Most people don't stop at 20 odd psi because they reach the point of inefficiency, but because they chose not to grenade their motors.

not saying that his motor will die because of the boost, just that 20 is where most people chose to stop without pushing for more.

my car popped a vac line on the dyno and ran up 30 something psi. It made a shit tonne more power than the same point on 20psi before we pulled the run (@ 5500 odd revs) but we never tried to tune it on that boost. considering that's smaller than a 3076 I would imagine most similar setups have more to give than 20psi but people are for want of a better word... scared

My turbo was 100% out off puff no matter what boost we tried and YES we did actually push 25+psi through it to try get a result but it had nothing left to give! If people stop at 20psi these days they either dont have confidence in their tuner OR they are just pussys

My car was making 348kw on 20-18psi and 363 on 24-20psi before, now its not only making a heap more power BUT its more responsive and lively EVERYWHERE and i am only on 20psi at the moment! When i go up to the high boost mark its going to be wild i reckon!

[Lithium]

I just don't' see the validity in comparing results when a car is running 40% more boost and a similar sized turbo.

Most people don't stop at 20 odd psi because they reach the point of inefficiency, but because they chose not to grenade their motors.

It's 11% more pressure at 24psi. If neither turbo are maxed out, then all you are comparing by running at 20psi is spool and then relative setup. If there is a power or power delivery advantage then the odds are it is something in the setup, or the dyno reads higher. That's the only reason I am saying that removing 4psi of boost is missing the point - after full boost has been reached all you are comparing car setup, not turbo.

[SimonR32]

Normal GT3076R do hit a fairly big brick wall at 350-360rwkw from all the results I have seen.

[34GeeTeeTee]

Normal GT3076R do hit a fairly big brick wall at 350-360rwkw from all the results I have seen.

360 is the wall... 363 took a LOT of pushing...

[scotty nm35]

It would be more sensible to compare it to the GTX though, as they are both billet and can both run high boost efficiently. As said though, there are no direct comparisons or even decent GTX3076 results on built engines. Shame mine isn't a manual, although stock manifolds and cams will be restricting my output severely anyway.

Too many variables unfortunately, but the HTA definitely spools nicely. Lithium, can you buy the HTA 3071 chra separately by chance, and will it drop in to standard GT3071 housings?

[Lithium]

I think contacting FP is your best option, though they have this page of "stuff" which shows that at the very least provide an upgrade option which they perform. I'd hope you could buy a CHRA too - but haven't looked into it

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FP&Category_Code=Turbo-Upgrade

[34GeeTeeTee]

It would be more sensible to compare it to the GTX though, as they are both billet and can both run high boost efficiently. As said though, there are no direct comparisons or even decent GTX3076 results on built engines. Shame mine isn't a manual, although stock manifolds and cams will be restricting my output severely anyway.

Too many variables unfortunately, but the HTA definitely spools nicely. Lithium, can you buy the HTA 3071 chra separately by chance, and will it drop in to standard GT3071 housings?

Why would it need a result on a built engine? Mine is 100% stock....

From what I have seen the old 3082 I got from Wolverine would have been in between a 3076 and 3582 response and make 390-400kw when pushed hard....

The HTA3076 hot only made 35r power but it spooled better too