Clenbuterol

[dezz]

Dare say that most people in here don't compete in anything, so there's no cheating involved.

As for nick's point, you'll find that most people willing to take clen, are in the gym to look good. Strength and fitness is a by a product.

[Majestic]

when I took Clen while I was a boxing - I never saw it as cheating. That may seem strange to people who are not competative athletes.. the fact is that everyone was taking something! (and still is) only a fool thinks that an athlete who is competing for money/sponsorship etc is totally clean lol people who are at an elite level in their chosen sport know this! I know of a former elite Australian swimmer who use to 'cheat' by blood doping. Blood doping is rife at the Olympic level! why.. because it is impossible to test for! This person said if he didn't do it - he wouldn't even qualify because everyone else is doing it.

It's all simple to sit back and point the finger at someone and call them a cheat etc.. Bottom line - the days of 'natural' athletes have been over for many decades. You only ever hear of the ones that get caught.

(for those who don't know what blood doping is - it's when an athlete takes 1 litre of his/her own blood out, sticks it in a fridge, drinks plenty of water - this helps the body replace the lost 1 litre of blood. Before the competition the athlete injects the 1 litre of blood back into themselves! INSTANT TWIN TURBO CHARGING!! the body can now carry much more oxygen to the working muscles! Impossible to trace because it'sthe athletes own blood)

Dare say that most people in here don't compete in anything, so there's no cheating involved.

As for nick's point, you'll find that most people willing to take clen, are in the gym to look good. Strength and fitness is a by a product.

[25GTT]

Sounds as stupid as insulin dosing. Extreme none the less.

Edited July 15, 2011 by 25GTT

[dezz]

I agree 100% with majestic. If everyone else in your sport is doing it, take bodybuilding and steroids for example. If you decide not to 'cheat', you'll go nowhere because your competition will be.

[25GTT]

Alberton contador thought the same thing.....

I liked the white painting on the road the other night...

Alberto - "Just say no"

[Majestic]

lol so true about body building.. try not 'cheating' in body building and see how competitive one will be against the guys (and girls) who do 'cheat'. Unless a person plans to compete at a ripped 70kg - it's pretty hard to stay natural and be competative. Quiet simply - man isn't suppose to be that big.

I agree 100% with majestic. If everyone else in your sport is doing it, take bodybuilding and steroids for example. If you decide not to 'cheat', you'll go nowhere because your competition will be.

[R31Nismoid]

Well that is kind of a bit misleading mate. Body building competitions have categories. Natural & Not.

The Natural guys are drug tested etc to ensure compliance, and that's the nature of that competition.

The other guys, well thats just a free for all and then there are also various classes within each group with regards to Age for example

[NickR33]

ummm its pretty much expected that bodybuilders use PEDs... they have a whole different set of competitions for people that want to go the natural route... I like that bodybuilding has done it this way, its not in denial like so many other sports

[NickR33]

damn too quick for me Ash

I just struggle with the notion that there are guys out there with no intention of competing who go through all the diet, training and sacrifice just to look good... that's a hell of a lot of work just so you like what you see in the mirror... don't get me wrong I'm as vain as the next guy but I like how training makes me feel, and like the improvement in general health and how much better I am at other sports I play etc

plus I've done my fair share of drugs in the past (recreational) and I know from my own experience and those close to me shit can get out of hand easily and over the long term it can really do some damage... but I don't really have any experience with these types of drugs so I'm happy to accept I probably don't know enough to have a real opinion... just be careful peeps:)

[R31Nismoid]

I like it too there is no denial there. Obviously it's not 'promoted', but people aren't under any illusions.

Lots of them don't compete because they aren't upto the public scrutiny on a stage infront of judges. They just judge themselves in a mirror 4hrs a day.

[NickR33]

I suppose you probably get laid more when you look like a beast... the chance of smashing lots of strange box must give you intense motivation

[Birds]

I wouldn't do it myself, but I don't consider it cheating in any way. If you do, then you might as well consider genetics cheating, because different people have different levels of these substances naturally occurring in their bodies. I used to consider it cheating, but then someone who doesn't go to the gym (outside perspective is always nice) rationalised to me that protein shakes are semantically the same process...taking a concentrated form of a substance that you wouldn't otherwise be able to obtain naturally, unless you went and ate a shit ton of meat. So now I just think of it as another level in supplementation/diet...I mean, where do you draw the line at what is acceptable and what isn't? When you start using a needle? When the substances can be detrimental to your health? So can lifting with bad technique, I guess...

Then there's the issue of, you ban one substance, and people will just find another that is legal or undetectable. Like someone said, they do this at the olympic level. The loser is the person who gets caught, or who doesn't do everything in their power to win. So like F1 racing and motorsport homologation, success instead becomes a mode of capitalism and whoever has the best R&D behind them. If professional athletes want to endanger their lives to put their sport ahead of their health, then so be it I say. They already dedicate their lives to their sport anyway - as if they don't already put themselves at health risk with the ridiculous training regimes at their level. To me, it just shows that someone is prepared to go that much further to win.

It's like when people consider nitrous cheating...but forced induction or any other kind of modification isn't. Where do you draw the line with that?

[Birds]

As for people doing it strictly for personal use and not competition...gym is a drug, we all know that...and you'll never be 100% happy with what you see in the mirror. There's always something you would change if you could. Most gym nuts become content with that though, others become obsessed and do what they can to chase their distorted view of perfection, where it becomes a case of bigger / more cut is always better. You survey a bunch of girls and their idea of the perfect body will be something around athletic / underwear model (not saying there aren't girls out there who like them big), which shows that these people end up just doing it for themselves or develop their own idea of what looks good.

[mad082]

damn too quick for me Ash

I just struggle with the notion that there are guys out there with no intention of competing who go through all the diet, training and sacrifice just to look good... that's a hell of a lot of work just so you like what you see in the mirror... don't get me wrong I'm as vain as the next guy but I like how training makes me feel, and like the improvement in general health and how much better I am at other sports I play etc

plus I've done my fair share of drugs in the past (recreational) and I know from my own experience and those close to me shit can get out of hand easily and over the long term it can really do some damage... but I don't really have any experience with these types of drugs so I'm happy to accept I probably don't know enough to have a real opinion... just be careful peeps:)

why do people spend thousands of dollars doing up a car only to drive it around on the street and not on the track? essentially the same thing.

As for people doing it strictly for personal use and not competition...gym is a drug, we all know that...and you'll never be 100% happy with what you see in the mirror. There's always something you would change if you could. Most gym nuts become content with that though, others become obsessed and do what they can to chase their distorted view of perfection, where it becomes a case of bigger / more cut is always better. You survey a bunch of girls and their idea of the perfect body will be something around athletic / underwear model (not saying there aren't girls out there who like them big), which shows that these people end up just doing it for themselves or develop their own idea of what looks good.

my missus falls into this category. she doesn't like beefcakes. she thinks that most footy (mainly NRL) players are ugly.

[GTR-N1]

I don't know much about this drug, so correct me if I'm wrong...

1) it can create a matrix of collagen within the heart wall which makes it stiffer rather than stronger?

2) it can reduce virility over time?

3) there's an aftermarket supply where this drug can end up as a diluted form and therefore not as effective?

I'm not sure about withdrawal I'm afraid or what damage it might do to the liver as well as heart over time.

[Majestic]

I can only share my experience with you. But as other people have already stated - everyone is an individual and any drugs can have different effects on different people. I used clen for a period of 6-7 years on and off while I was a competitive boxer in the 1990's.. I did my research on this drug and learnt how to measure my dosage accurately (this is the part that most people get wrong - it involves taking your body temp and finding out what dosage raises your body temp by around 1 degree - any higher and you will experience more side effects). As for side effects.. I didn't get the jitters once I knew how to take the correct dosage for my body. Summer time I remembering sweating heaps! on really hot days I would jump in a cold shower every 30 mins or so.

I'm now 41yo and my health appears to be fine - have had many medical check ups and always told to be in really good health. I still compete in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (won gold at the NSW State Champs a few weeks back in my division) and will be competing at the Australian Masters Games in Boxing in October. Again please don't think I'm out trying to promote this stuff, just sharing my experience. I think educating myself on dosage and knowing when to have breaks etc minimised problems. But as I said before, there are people out there with underlaying medical conditions that should stay right away from this stuff.

Food for thought - people take drugs every day without regard to their health - smoking, alchohol, pain killers, exctasy, amphetamines, heroin, cocaine, steriods etc.. excessive use in anything will eventually catch up with the user! even something like panadol. Even too much water can kill you lol

I don't know much about this drug, so correct me if I'm wrong..

1) it can create a matrix of collagen within the heart wall which makes it stiffer rather than stronger?

2) it can reduce virility over time

3) there's an aftermarket supply where this drug can end up as a diluted form and therefore not as effective?

I'm not sure about withdrawal I'm afraid or what damage it might do to the liver as well as heart over time.

[IOWNU]

In terms of cheating, everyone watch Bigger Stronger Faster.

Kthnxbai.

[JKR-32]

In terms of cheating, everyone watch Bigger Stronger Faster.

Kthnxbai.

Good documentary that one

[666DAN]

I know it's becoming more common for people to use Salbutamol (Asthma puffers) as it's a very similar beta-agonist, which you can buy OTC. It's not as good as Clen, but close enough and cheap/easy to get just requires dosing more often. It's puffed directly onto your tounge ~5-10 puffs (don't inhale) and swallowed.

[vspecIInur]

^ haha I contemplated on that one but decided to stick with clen. If I knew how to get clen a lot cheaper and more readily available, then I would be using it otherwise nothing at all.