Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Ok... so having done a few k's with the new motor I have a few issues/observations which I want to know whether they are consistent with what others have noted.

For details of my build please see:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/376666-power-ceiling-gt3076r/page__hl__ceiling

AND

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/371076-rb2530det/

FYI Motor is still on castor/mineral oil as I am doing 500-1000km before changing to synthetic.

My first issue/observation is the immediate lack of traction achievable in 1st/2nd/3rd gears thumbsup.gif

Now although this change is blatantly obvious due to the dramatic increase in torque from my previous motor (RB20DET), I'm wondering what you guys are experiencing...

This is all in the dry BTW:

1st gear is pretty much useless @ more than about 1/2 throttle...otherwise she spins up

2nd gear EASILY torches the tyres when full boost comes in (~3200RPM) and if you don't modulate the throttle to minimize wheel spin, it all just ends up in alot of smoke/noise through to cut-out (7000RPM)

3rd gear will just be able to hold the tyres in line with them spinning up "ever so slightly" until about 5k rpm where power/torque has nosed over (see above post links)

Suspension setup is the Sydney Kid GB. 235/45/17 Bridgestone RE001 rears with probably 60-70% left.

My idea to assist traction would be to go to a 255/40/17 and potentially go to a semi-slick such as a KU36. However, I just don't see these changes being able to make such a significant difference considering the torque. What setups are most members running and what are your observations? Do you guys find that having the additional torque from RB30 and a decent sized turbo that it is just not "practically" useful on the street?

Of course this is assuming we are not spinning the tyres every time we want to give it a squirt below 60-70km/h in 2nd or 3rd.....

Secondly, when ever the motor comes on boost at throttle positions between 75-100%, it almost feels as though something is "restricting" the car. What's moreover is the power that the motor delivers feels very inconsistent. I.e. non-significant changes in ambient temperature- one time the thing will feel like a ball tearer, the next time it will feel "flatter". By no means is it a lesser feeling than say an RB20/RB25 DET setup, but it just doesn't feel as consistent in putting out power as the OEM tune did. Have any of you forklift motor owners experienced said "feeling"? Could this potentially be related to a temperature compensation in the Nistune ECU reducing the timing the motor sees as the engine gets hotter from the previous "squirt"?

Thirdly, as soon as you change gears, the motor feels like the rev's drop SIGNIFICANTLY more than what I would normally expect during the time the clutch is depressed- it's as if the engine is wanting to stall! Now I believe this to be partly caused by some reversion coming from the turbo (NOTE: "chopping" sound after gear change occurs) playing funny buggers with the AFM readings. Intake side consists of stock BOV setup, 3" metal intake pipe (pissed off the OEM rubber item). Any of you care to share your thoughts on this issue?

All in all, I'm happy with the setup but have these few drivability issues to sort through to make this a more comfortable streeter.

Any thoughts/comments etc. are much appreciated

The tyres and size should be OK on face value - how old are they?

What are your rear wheel alignment settings?

Do the wheels tramp (bounce) or spin evenly?

Is it 1 wheel spinning or both?

Pedal control is something that you need to learn, mine is the same with wanting to bag the wheels, progressive acceleration in relation to road speed, get these two areas right and you should be fine.

Even quality tyres will want to break away if you just mash the go pedal, with power come great responsibility, if you just look at the finger you will miss all the heavenly glory, LOL.

As Duncan said, whats running in the rear, if its single legging you will need to fix that ASAP.

It's like riding a big sports bike in the wet, ease it on, control the rear and its all good.

Tyres are within a year old so I wouldn't have thought that the compound had "gone hard" from sitting around doing nothing with no heat cycles.

Yeh, atm I am using the right foot to modulate the power feeding to those tyres but was just wondering if a lot of these observations are consistent with what others experience.

Alignment is as follows from when the rear tyres were installed:

FR

Caster = 6 deg

Toe = 3mm total toe out (1.5mm each side)

Camber = -1deg

RE

Toe = 0 mm total

Camber = -0.5 deg

My old 100% worn tyres used to axle tramp, until I got my current set of tyres installed and an alignment done. Very little needed to be corrected in the new alignment though stupid.gif

My diff is a V-LSD. A very loose/sloppy one at that. However it doesnt seem too bad. This definately would be a part of the problem, but I wasn't really wanting to go down the clutch pack route unless I 100% had to. Possibly shimming will help a little bit in a straight line?

Edited by R32Abuser

how old are the rubbers in the subframe. First thing cubes and i noticed was the thing wanting to twist out of the car.

edit/ welcome to the world of "lets now replace everything that was partially gone to cope with the new power"

Edited by Bl4cK32

Subframe bushes in the rear I am due to replace once my HICAS lock bar comes in (couple of weeks). Then Ill be dropping the diff and pissing off HICAS, replacing all diff bushes and replacing the subframe bushes. Hopefully this will fix a few noises and make the rear end a little less "squirmy" when pushing it. In saying that, the diff has ALOT of backlash. To the extent that the clutch shuddering ( I was told for the first 1000km of my JB Full Monty Clutch's life that it would do this) causes some seriously bad knocks in the rear end. Also I can turn the tail shaft like 10 degrees and get little to no movement of the half/stub shafts out of the diff blink.gif (time for a new diff or at the very least an overhaul of the V-LSD!!!)

All engine/transmission mounts were changed to Nismo items when the motor was removed FYI.

I've experienced inconsistent performance when tuning a nistune ecu, (no fault of nistune) turns out I hadn't ticked the "knock copy" box. So basically the ecu had two completely different timing maps available. - Maybe have a look at your main timing and fuel maps and do a quick comparison with the knock maps.

i have this all before.

its all in the boost ramp rate and limiting power a little in lower gears (assuming tyres are decent and you arent running something silly ie -5 degrees camber on the rear).

GT35R + 235 semis and i have traction in 1st and 2nd unless its particularly cool/cold

if you can have a 2D map for boost control and run GEAR vs Revs, eg mine runs 1st 15psi, 2nd 17psi, 3rd 17 until ~100km/h and then full boost from there on.

I run a standalone controller for boost controller (Blitz DSBC) which (to my knowledge) doesn't allow such freedom :( May have to play with the ramp rate overall. Suffer with a little bit more spool time to get a little bit more power to the ground.

Once my Bridgies have run their race Ill definately be moving onto a semi at the rear or all round. Federal RS-R's or Kuhmo KU-36's most likely. I would go to a 255/40/17 but the price difference is rediculous and its makes the wheel setup "technically" illegal as the wheel protrudes from the arch.

Ok... so having done a few k's with the new motor I have a few issues/observations which I want to know whether they are consistent with what others have noted.

For details of my build please see:

http://www.skylinesa...ge__hl__ceiling

AND

http://www.skylinesa...1076-rb2530det/

FYI Motor is still on castor/mineral oil as I am doing 500-1000km before changing to synthetic.

My first issue/observation is the immediate lack of traction achievable in 1st/2nd/3rd gears thumbsup.gif

Now although this change is blatantly obvious due to the dramatic increase in torque from my previous motor (RB20DET), I'm wondering what you guys are experiencing...

This is all in the dry BTW:

1st gear is pretty much useless @ more than about 1/2 throttle...otherwise she spins up

2nd gear EASILY torches the tyres when full boost comes in (~3200RPM) and if you don't modulate the throttle to minimize wheel spin, it all just ends up in alot of smoke/noise through to cut-out (7000RPM)

3rd gear will just be able to hold the tyres in line with them spinning up "ever so slightly" until about 5k rpm where power/torque has nosed over (see above post links)

Suspension setup is the Sydney Kid GB. 235/45/17 Bridgestone RE001 rears with probably 60-70% left.

My idea to assist traction would be to go to a 255/40/17 and potentially go to a semi-slick such as a KU36. However, I just don't see these changes being able to make such a significant difference considering the torque. What setups are most members running and what are your observations? Do you guys find that having the additional torque from RB30 and a decent sized turbo that it is just not "practically" useful on the street?

Of course this is assuming we are not spinning the tyres every time we want to give it a squirt below 60-70km/h in 2nd or 3rd.....

Secondly, when ever the motor comes on boost at throttle positions between 75-100%, it almost feels as though something is "restricting" the car. What's moreover is the power that the motor delivers feels very inconsistent. I.e. non-significant changes in ambient temperature- one time the thing will feel like a ball tearer, the next time it will feel "flatter". By no means is it a lesser feeling than say an RB20/RB25 DET setup, but it just doesn't feel as consistent in putting out power as the OEM tune did. Have any of you forklift motor owners experienced said "feeling"? Could this potentially be related to a temperature compensation in the Nistune ECU reducing the timing the motor sees as the engine gets hotter from the previous "squirt"?

Thirdly, as soon as you change gears, the motor feels like the rev's drop SIGNIFICANTLY more than what I would normally expect during the time the clutch is depressed- it's as if the engine is wanting to stall! Now I believe this to be partly caused by some reversion coming from the turbo (NOTE: "chopping" sound after gear change occurs) playing funny buggers with the AFM readings. Intake side consists of stock BOV setup, 3" metal intake pipe (pissed off the OEM rubber item). Any of you care to share your thoughts on this issue?

All in all, I'm happy with the setup but have these few drivability issues to sort through to make this a more comfortable streeter.

Any thoughts/comments etc. are much appreciated

changing to a hub dyno will solve your tyre spinning problem

Ok... so having done a few k's with the new motor I have a few issues/observations which I want to know whether they are consistent with what others have noted.

For details of my build please see:

http://www.skylinesa...ge__hl__ceiling

AND

http://www.skylinesa...1076-rb2530det/

FYI Motor is still on castor/mineral oil as I am doing 500-1000km before changing to synthetic.

My first issue/observation is the immediate lack of traction achievable in 1st/2nd/3rd gears thumbsup.gif

Now although this change is blatantly obvious due to the dramatic increase in torque from my previous motor (RB20DET), I'm wondering what you guys are experiencing...

This is all in the dry BTW:

1st gear is pretty much useless @ more than about 1/2 throttle...otherwise she spins up

2nd gear EASILY torches the tyres when full boost comes in (~3200RPM) and if you don't modulate the throttle to minimize wheel spin, it all just ends up in alot of smoke/noise through to cut-out (7000RPM)

3rd gear will just be able to hold the tyres in line with them spinning up "ever so slightly" until about 5k rpm where power/torque has nosed over (see above post links)

Suspension setup is the Sydney Kid GB. 235/45/17 Bridgestone RE001 rears with probably 60-70% left.

My idea to assist traction would be to go to a 255/40/17 and potentially go to a semi-slick such as a KU36. However, I just don't see these changes being able to make such a significant difference considering the torque. What setups are most members running and what are your observations? Do you guys find that having the additional torque from RB30 and a decent sized turbo that it is just not "practically" useful on the street?

Of course this is assuming we are not spinning the tyres every time we want to give it a squirt below 60-70km/h in 2nd or 3rd.....

Secondly, when ever the motor comes on boost at throttle positions between 75-100%, it almost feels as though something is "restricting" the car. What's moreover is the power that the motor delivers feels very inconsistent. I.e. non-significant changes in ambient temperature- one time the thing will feel like a ball tearer, the next time it will feel "flatter". By no means is it a lesser feeling than say an RB20/RB25 DET setup, but it just doesn't feel as consistent in putting out power as the OEM tune did. Have any of you forklift motor owners experienced said "feeling"? Could this potentially be related to a temperature compensation in the Nistune ECU reducing the timing the motor sees as the engine gets hotter from the previous "squirt"?

Thirdly, as soon as you change gears, the motor feels like the rev's drop SIGNIFICANTLY more than what I would normally expect during the time the clutch is depressed- it's as if the engine is wanting to stall! Now I believe this to be partly caused by some reversion coming from the turbo (NOTE: "chopping" sound after gear change occurs) playing funny buggers with the AFM readings. Intake side consists of stock BOV setup, 3" metal intake pipe (pissed off the OEM rubber item). Any of you care to share your thoughts on this issue?

All in all, I'm happy with the setup but have these few drivability issues to sort through to make this a more comfortable streeter.

Any thoughts/comments etc. are much appreciated

changing to a hub dyno will solve your tyre spinning problem

  • 3 months later...

FYI

Found an issue with my knock sensor fault occuring.

Hence, this has been pulling timing when the fault occurs. Apparently the fault stays on the computer until you turn the car off for about 10 seconds. But either way, it does explain the "inconsistent feeling" of power I described.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I know why it happened and I’m embarrassed to say but I was testing the polarity of one of the led bulb to see which side was positive with a 12v battery and that’s when it decided to fry hoping I didn’t damage anything else
    • I came here to note that is a zener diode too base on the info there. Based on that, I'd also be suspicious that replacing it, and it's likely to do the same. A lot of use cases will see it used as either voltage protection, or to create a cheap but relatively stable fixed voltage supply. That would mean it has seen more voltage than it should, and has gone into voltage melt down. If there is something else in the circuit dumping out higher than it should voltages, that needs to be found too. It's quite likely they're trying to use the Zener to limit the voltage that is hitting through to the transistor beside it, so what ever goes to the zener is likely a signal, and they're using the transistor in that circuit to amplify it. Especially as it seems they've also got a capacitor across the zener. Looks like there is meant to be something "noisy" to that zener, and what ever it was, had a melt down. Looking at that picture, it also looks like there's some solder joints that really need redoing, and it might be worth having the whole board properly inspected.  Unfortunately, without being able to stick a multimeter on it, and start tracing it all out, I'm pretty much at a loss now to help. I don't even believe I have a climate control board from an R33 around here to pull apart and see if any of the circuit appears similar to give some ideas.
    • Nah - but you won't find anything on dismantling the seats in any such thing anyway.
    • Could be. Could also be that they sit around broken more. To be fair, you almost never see one driving around. I see more R chassis GTRs than the Renault ones.
    • Yeah. Nah. This is why I said My bold for my double emphasis. We're not talking about cars tuned to the edge of det here. We're talking about normal cars. Flame propagation speed and the amount of energy required to ignite the fuel are not significant factors when running at 1500-4000 rpm, and medium to light loads, like nearly every car on the road (except twin cab utes which are driven at 6k and 100% load all the time). There is no shortage of ignition energy available in any petrol engine. If there was, we'd all be in deep shit. The calorific value, on a volume basis, is significantly different, between 98 and 91, and that turns up immediately in consumption numbers. You can see the signal easily if you control for the other variables well enough, and/or collect enough stats. As to not seeing any benefit - we had a couple of EF and EL Falcons in the company fleet back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The EEC IV ECU in those things was particularly good at adding in timing as soon as knock headroom improved, which typically came from putting in some 95 or 98. The responsiveness and power improved noticeably, and the fuel consumption dropped considerably, just from going to 95. Less delta from there to 98 - almost not noticeable, compared to the big differences seen between 91 and 95. Way back in the day, when supermarkets first started selling fuel from their own stations, I did thousands of km in FNQ in a small Toyota. I can't remember if it was a Starlet or an early Yaris. Anyway - the supermarket servos were bringing in cheap fuel from Indonesia, and the other servos were still using locally refined gear. The fuel consumption was typically at least 5%, often as much as 8% worse on the Indo shit, presumably because they had a lot more oxygenated component in the brew, and were probably barely meeting the octane spec. Around the same time or maybe a bit later (like 25 years ago), I could tell the difference between Shell 98 and BP 98, and typically preferred to only use Shell then because the Skyline ran so much better on it. Years later I found the realtionship between them had swapped, as a consequence of yet more refinery closures. So I've only used BP 98 since. Although, I must say that I could not fault the odd tank of United 98 that I've run. It's probably the same stuff. It is also very important to remember that these findings are often dependent on region. With most of the refineries in Oz now dead, there's less variability in local stuff, and he majority of our fuels are not even refined here any more anyway. It probably depends more on which SE Asian refinery is currently cheapest to operate.
×
×
  • Create New...