Would A Track/race Gtr Be Faster With No 4Wd?

[bigmikespec]

First thread start in this section so please be gentle.

Thinking about track/race only R32/R33/R34 GTR's with no 4WD... is the trade off between the weight lost at the front without the front diff., drive shafts and also transfer case behind the gearbox be a greater advantage over the 4WD grip?

When you consider when you remove the front sump/diff. you could fit a custom shallow dry sump oil pan, without the transfer case you could fit a ex-Supertaxi seq. box without worrying about the transfer case.

The GT cars in Japan were all rear wheel drive only be it for rules or reliability.

What are peoples thoughts?

[Hadouken]

Why mutilate a waste you're money on a gtr. Get a gtst

[zebra]

If you were limited to near standard power in the dry at a track like Eastern Creek than yes.

600+hp and wakefield park....no way

[bigmikespec]

Why mutilate a waste you're money on a gtr. Get a gtst

Congratulations on being the first to make that comment but not the intention of the thread.

We are talking about a GTR with less weight at the front (50-100kg?) dry sump with lowered engine (lower COG), no t/case... maybe a seq. gearbox too. In comparison with a similar spec. GTR with 4WD and the additional weight associated... same power i.e. 600hp.

[BOZ22N]

The GTR 33-34 have a much better set up than a gtst STD . They have better suspension uprights on the front alloy rear hubs better guards to swallow massive wheels and I am sure the chassis has a lot of other little bits that make it better than a gtst. A gtr chassis in rwd would be great expessially with nice engine package. Quicker? Fun yes :-)

[ydr030]

mates currently building a 32 gtr with 3.0l botttom end, holinger rwd only, he seems to thinks its better, hes got a fair idea he used to have a r3o that did 1.08s at waki only with a worked L28 lol

[Hadouken]

Oh I understand now. Haha.

[badhairdave]

nope.

kw for kw, tyre for tyre, brake for brake etc etc everything identical, the 4wd will beat the 100kg lighter 2wd because it can get out of 2/3rd gear corners faster by putting more power to the ground and doesn't give that much away by the end of the straight or in the braking zone. Maybe if we were talking closer to 200kg difference i'd change my mind.

Find a 3/4 gear track and they are getting closer

Find a 4/5/6 gear track and the lighter car might just sneak in front.

But for such a small difference in weight on most Australian tracks, nope.

[bigmikespec]

nope.

kw for kw, tyre for tyre, brake for brake etc etc everything identical, the 4wd will beat the 100kg lighter 2wd because it can get out of 2/3rd gear corners faster by putting more power to the ground and doesn't give that much away by the end of the straight or in the braking zone. Maybe if we were talking closer to 200kg difference i'd change my mind.

Find a 3/4 gear track and they are getting closer

Find a 4/5/6 gear track and the lighter car might just sneak in front.

But for such a small difference in weight on most Australian tracks, nope.

Great input... thanks

[Russman]

This thead is right up my alley

Have a read of this article done by Autocult.net on me and my car.

http://autocult.net/

[bigmikespec]

This thead is right up my alley

Have a read of this article done by Autocult.net on me and my car.

http://autocult.net/

Interesting... would you be as fast or faster as a R32 GTR with the same power? I recognise that there are a lot of other differences.

Sorry but I do not know a lot about track times and what is good where.

[R31Nismoid]

Have you weighed your car Russ?

I'd be taking a rough guess that you'd be around 250-300kg lighter than say Chris/Ant who are still full weight GTRs?

(group visit to the weight bridge! haha)

[tweety bird]

wasn't there a thread on this already?

[Russman]

Interesting... would you be as fast or faster as a R32 GTR with the same power? I recognise that there are a lot of other differences.

Sorry but I do not know a lot about track times and what is good where.

Short answer is yes.

Like Ash has said I'm approx 200kg lighter and about 60kw less than most Vic GTR's and we are neck and neck.

Upside is that I use less tyres, brakes etc to do it! Mid corner is faster too which is what I reckon is the most fun.

[Russman]

Have you weighed your car Russ?

Haven't had it weighed but it's not that lightened. Sound deadening, air con etc gone but has a heavy cage put back in so it's only just lighter than standard I reckon.

[tweety bird]

yes there has.

here http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/363685-which-has-more-potential-in-the-long-run/page__hl__rwd+gtr+vs+awd+gtr

and here http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/358539-has-anyone-here-made-a-gtr-rwd-only/page__hl__rwd+gtr

[bigmikespec]

Let me apologise to the forum police.

This is specific to the motorsport guys with genuine experience and semi/professional opinion not a bunch of teenagers who want to drift their GTR or do burnouts.

[260DET]

Phillip Island, Bathurst??? Maybe,I don't really know. Shitty little circuits like Wakefield? No?

Edited November 11, 2011 by 260DET

[tweety bird]

touchy aren't you, did you read the first thread?

let me quote it for you.

Hey guys,

I have this theory which I base my car around: That in the long run with a decent budget on the car, an R32 GTS-T will be faster around the track than it's flagship brother; the R32 GTR (assuming both with the same RB26 engine). This is because of these factors:

- GTS-T is lighter and better front to rear weight balance.

- With modifications the GTS-T will be further lighter.

- The R32 GTR has the most understeer and eliminating that will provide more potential.

- GTS-T will have faster turn in from lighter front.

- An AWD system is only used for additional traction so if aero parts are in and modified correctly then the extra weight of AWD is not needed.

- R32 AWD system too primitive.

- More fun around the track.

- Cheaper.

There is a reason all the JGTC and GT class Skylines are all RWD, I'm sure it's from the fact that from long term modification, the AWD system is no longer needed. If you look at the statistics, the GTS-T is already 110kg lighter than the GTR (standard eninges), and whatever you can do to the GTR you can do to the GTS-T. Now before anyone starts flaming, I'm not hating on the GTRs but I dare you guys to prove me wrong on this.

Statistics:

R32 GTR

Curb weight: 1430kg

Drivetrain: F4

Track width front and rear: 1480mm / 1480mm

Wheelbase: 2615mm

Suspension: Independent multi-link

R32 GTS-T

Curb weight: 1320kg

Drivetrain: FR

Track width front and rear: 1460mm / 1460mm

Wheelbase: 2615mm

Suspension: Independant multi-link

umad?

[Risking]

Been here done most of that......

My old R32 GTR which was raced not just tracked had a terrible issue smashing front diffs off the grid.

I'd get the first race down and the rest of the weekend would be spent with a crownwheel floating around in the front diff.

The car would be very difficult to drive when the front diff would first let go. After some chassis work to make livable I would end up leaving the front diff broken for the rest of the weekends

Nothing else would change just no front diff.

As a RWD car I'd have some trouble getting pace into it for the first couple of laps but once it was settled in there was virtually no difference in the cars pace If you drove it like a RWD and were patient on the throttle.

I have that chassis pretty sorted and alot of work had gone into it.

I can't see why if you removed the front sump, transfer case, attessa pumps/resivour, front drive shafts, prop shaft etc that exact car would not be quicker.

Straight line speed would increase, braking ability would increase( not that it needs to be any better) acceleration would actually increase (providing it's driven accordingly and set up correctly)

My guess would be with joe blow behind the wheel the car would be slower, someone experienced who can steer well would be faster, harder to drive 100% but faster.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Risking