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Formula One 2012

N1GTR

By N1GTR,
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hrd-hr30 Grand Master

hrd-hr30

Posted
Posted (edited)

what!?

what part of that don't you understand? Ever heard the old adage; "to finish first, first you must finish"? If the car is unreliable, you won't win every race. And you don't deserve to. Simple.

Same goes for if your car doesn't make good downforce - you won't win and don't deserve to. Reliability is a characteristic of the car every bit as much as downforce is, or any other aspect of a car's performance.

The same reasoning goes for, if your cant qualify you car for shit and get stuck in the mid pack, you deserve the wrath of the newfags

that's not the same reasoning. the driver generally does have some input over where he qualifies. But yes, if you qualify down in the midfield, there is always going to be greater risk of first lap incidents. That's a well known issue. That's part of what make qualifying as high as you can important. Has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about though...

You reasoning is specious, to say the least

lol that is saying the very least! Feel free to ellaborabate... You offer absolutely no rationale, so it's impossible to tell what you mean. As impressive as your big word is, it does not in itself prove me wrong.

Edited by hrd-hr30
ctjet Grand Master

ctjet

Posted
Posted (edited)

what part of that don't you understand? Ever heard the old adage; "to finish first, first you must finish"? If the car is unreliable, you won't win every race. And you don't deserve to. Simple.

Same goes for if your car doesn't make good downforce - you won't win and don't deserve to. Reliability is a characteristic of the car every bit as much as downforce is, or any other aspect of a car's performance.

Every part. Im not disagreeing with your old adage, i said Renault is the deciding factor in the championship, not Roman. Because they have also cost a team points, its just as plausible to apply the same ridiculous methodology

Just because they are not exactly the same thing, doesnt make one less valid than the other

I'd say the REAL deciding factor has been that ferrari have produced a rubbish car for fernando to compete with and he is lucky to be holding onto seb by the skin of his teeth

that's not the same reasoning. the driver generally does have some input over where he qualifies. But yes, if you qualify down in the midfield, there is always going to be greater risk of first lap incidents. That's a well known issue. That's part of what make qualifying as high as you can important. Has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about though...

Roman has taken plenty of people out of races this year. Just because on one occasion it happened to be Nando, is just fate

That was a genuine incident. Moving your team mate out of your way at every single opportunity during races AND NOW QUALIFYING, is something much less sporting and somewhat contradictory to the having a two car team

lol that is saying the very least! Feel free to ellaborabate... You offer absolutely no rationale, so it's impossible to tell what you mean. As impressive as your big word is, it does not in itself prove me wrong.

I offer plenty of rationale, and a differing opinion. Dont get all butthurt when somebody doesnt see something the same as you.

And thank you, is a nice nice word, but its not very big, it just seems impressive because of how i used it. My life story

Edited by ctjet
hrd-hr30 Grand Master

hrd-hr30

Posted
Posted (edited)

Every part. Im not disagreeing with your old adage, i said Renault is the deciding factor in the championship, not Roman. Because they have also cost a team points, its just as plausible to apply the same ridiculous methodology

you obviously missed this:

I have no problem with Renault being the deciding factor in the championship. If their shit is too unreliable to win races, that's a fair deciding factor!

Just because they are not exactly the same thing, doesnt make one less valid than the other.

you're right, that's not what makes one less valid than the other. But Renault's reliability has nothing to do with the championship being altered at Spa. Its not rationale or reasoning to your argument, Its just a diversion.

I'd say the REAL deciding factor has been that ferrari have produced a rubbish car for fernando to compete with and he is lucky to be holding onto seb by the skin of his teeth

yet he'd still be leading the championship if not for the aberration of Spa caused by factors outside anyone's control. Except Grosjean, of course. The fact that Nando has driven that rubbish car into so many points throughout the year is why he deserves better than the title being handed to Vettel by default due to the unnatural result at Spa.

Roman has taken plenty of people out of races this year. Just because on one occasion it happened to be Nando, is just fate

difference between tagging a person's back tyre giving them a puncture and wiping out half the top 10 in one fell swoop. That doesn't gift the other driver an extra 6 free, uncontested positions and a heap more points, does it?

That was a genuine incident. Moving your team mate out of your way at every single opportunity during races AND NOW QUALIFYING, is something much less sporting and somewhat contradictory to the having a two car team

You may not have noticed that team orders are legal. You may also not have noticed that the rules permit what Ferrari did in Austin. You may also not have noticed that taking advantage of the rules is the name of the game in F1. And competitive sport worlwide for that matter. You may also not have noticed that in any team sport, the team does what is best for the team at the expense of individuals. In this case, its obviously its best for the team to try and keep their driver in the title hunt than for Massa to collect a few more points just for the sake of it.

I offer plenty of rationale, and a differing opinion. Dont get all butthurt when somebody doesnt see something the same as you.

but the thing you took umbridge to was the comment that "If your car is unreliable, that's points you deserve to loose IMO" Your response was simply "What!?". When I asked what part you didn't understand and you replied "Every part". No rationale to that at all, you just went off on some unrelated tangent about alternators.

You're the one letting your butthurt get the better of you. You dislike Ferrari and are obviously butthurt about their gearbox seal trick to help Alonso, so you're arguing against them for the sake of it.

But at least you admit Grosjean cost people points. Its only a small step from there to admit he's changed the course of the championship which, after all, is decided on those points he cost people. The points he cost Alonso, Hamilton et al at Spa and the same points he gifted to Vettel has made a big difference to the championship. That's undeniable.

Comparing the obliteration of the top 10 at Spa to analternators is the spurious argument.

Edited by hrd-hr30
ctjet Grand Master

ctjet

Posted
Posted (edited)
you're right, that's not what makes one less valid than the other. But Renault's reliability has nothing to do with the championship being altered at Spa. Its not rationale or reasoning to your argument, Its just a diversion.

By not fixing this ongoing alternator issue, of course Renault has contributed to the outcome of the season ending points table. What im saying is, that has had the same, if not more, of an impact on the points table than the one race Roman went on takuma sato on the grid

yet he'd still be leading the championship if not for the aberration of Spa caused by factors outside anyone's control. Except Grosjean, of course. The fact that Nando has driven that rubbish car into so many points throughout the year is why he deserves better than the title being handed to Vettel by default due to the unnatural result at Spa.

I dispute that because he had a rubbish car he deserves it more. He maximized its points finishes. EXACTLY the same as Vettel has. Vettel has just been finished slightly ahead all year long. So why chose one over the other? They both deserve it

difference between tagging a person's back tyre giving them a puncture and wiping out half the top 10 in one fell swoop. That doesn't gift the other driver an extra 6 free, uncontested positions and a heap more points, does it?
Whos to say that vettel wouldnt have gotten them anyway?

we couldnt possibly know that he wouldnt have made up those points anyway. Which is why im saying your entire premise is a bit of a reach

You may not have noticed that team orders are legal. You may also not have noticed that the rules permit what Ferrari did in Austin. You may also not have noticed that taking advantage of the rules is the name of the game in F1. And competitive sport worlwide for that matter. You may also not have noticed that in any team sport, the team does what is best for the team at the expense of individuals. In this case, its obviously its best for the team to try and keep their driver in the title hunt than for Massa to collect a few more points just for the sake of it.

I have noticed actually. And it saddens me

You know what else is legal? For a grown ass man to marry a child. Shit is legal right? So fcuk it, wheres the problem?

looking for a loophole that clearly is against the rules... ie 'sabotaging' cars, bendy wings... is not the same as exploiting some vague technical regulation. But this is not the point of the conversation, so imma let this go

but the thing you took umbridge to was the comment that "If your car is unreliable, that's points you deserve to loose IMO" Your response was simply "What!?". When I asked what part you didn't understand and you replied "Every part". No rationale to that at all, you just went off on some unrelated tangent about alternators

You're the one letting your butthurt get the better of you. You dislike Ferrari and are obviously butthurt about their gearbox seal trick to help Alonso, so you're arguing against them for the sake of it.

But at least you admit Grosjean cost people points. Its only a small step from there to admit he's changed the course of the championship which, after all, is decided on those points he cost people. The points he cost Alonso, Hamilton et al at Spa and the same points he gifted to Vettel has made a big difference to the championship. That's undeniable.

I took no umbridge, i would say astounded or confused. I dont get angry, this is the internet, and i am not an infant

My dislike of ferrari is seperate from my dislike of what they did. If redbull had done the same thing i would have been screaming blue murder as well

I never dimissed the fact that Grojean cost people points, but it is FAR from the deciding championship event. It was AN event. Much like the 20 or 30 other events that have changed the championship

Comparing the obliteration of the top 10 at Spa to analternators is the spurious argument.

awww shit, welcome to the club

analternators... lol

Edited by ctjet
89CAL Grand Master

89CAL

Posted
Posted

*sigh*

You cant argue that Vettel winning the championship is Grosjean's fault

It is what it is, could very well have been someone else in there that crashed fernando off in 3 races instead of one. Then would you no longer blame Grosjean?

Honestly what is the point of arguing it now, the FIA aren't reading this and going "hmm he has a good point, lets give Alonso 20 bonus points"

Its Racing, its been for the most part a good year

And I'm willing to bed that if Alonso takes the WDC at Brazil, all the years dramas will be absolved. And if Vettel wins, life will be all F#$!@$ up and the championship is rigged and Grosjean is the devil.

As far as I'm concerned if your run into by someone at the start of a race, thats unlucky, but semi expected. If your car fails on lap 50 then thats unlucky and most of the time unexpected. I'm not going to blame Alonso for being in the wrong place at the wrong time at all because your expected to fight to gain places and not be conservative. But I don't see it as being any more unlucky then having your car fail.

Look back at Kimi in the MP4-20. Absoloutly should have won the WDC, but McLaren built a $hit car and Alonso beat him to it. As long as Formula 1 exists, these things are going to happen

F#@!$!@# I got sucked into this.

Brazil, Rain, WDC on the line, Hamilton with nothing to lose going for a win, couple of new cars/drivers showing front running pace

Set for a fantastic final race :)

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