Lets Talk Water Meth Injection

[DaveO74]

Mafia said that little tank lasted 1 tank of fuel on his thread. I think he must have been thrashing it the entire tank lol.

I am aiming to have my car tuned well without WMI then try to add WMI from that point on. I will probably have Jez focus his tuning on actuator pressure first, then maybe up to 10 or 12psi without any WMI, then we can introduce the WMI and see where it ends up.

I want to know if im out of water I can simply hit the low boost or turn the EBC off and keep hammering on. More convenient than being stuck in goulburn with no E85 stations around lol.

Good idea, at least running just demineralised water you can get just about anywhere which is a bonus, especially if yours is a daily.

You didn't say whether you got the stage 2 kit or not???

From What i understand the methanol in the mix will increase the effective octane of the fuel. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Ok cool, I'm only about 45mins from rocket industries and the sell the water meth mix and mine will not be a daily soon so might go the whole hog.

[ARTZ]

Ok cool, I'm only about 45mins from rocket industries and the sell the water meth mix and mine will not be a daily soon so might go the whole hog.

yeah u usually do

how is the beast going anyway, new setup working well?

[DaveO74]

What you talkin bout Willis????

Your just jealous of that 50 kg of extra weight I'm running due to my powdercoating addiction

Yeh man going well, except we think the old walbro can't keep up with the new huffer so it's booked in for a looksee. So I'm thinking of getting the WMI kit and install it before the booking so I don't have to retune again.

[GTScotT]

Sorry mate I thought I did mention I bought the Stage 2 Boost Cooler kit.

Ive ordered 2 kits, one for my car and one for a mates.

Mine SR20DE 10:1 CR T28, Mates SR20DE 9.5:1 CR Kando TD05H 18G

Looking forward to seeing how much further we can go with the Kando especially Its currents a little knock limited and unable to wind in the boost the turbo actually wants.

[DaveO74]

Thanks man,

The WMI will get rid of that pesky knock for you hopefully.

Mine is knock limited at the moment as well in third gear wot. But as I said I'm hoping it's just a matter of the fuel pump being unable to keep up with the new setup????

I HOPE >.<

[GTScotT]

I think my issues were an accumulation of parts and a slight possibility of being overcautious in a few areas. I will really be pushing to have the setup work PERFECT before the WMI gets turned on, I DO NOT use bandaids.

My decision to go WMI was built on a balance of raising the motors natural ping resistance (beyond the spastic issues I was having with the old setup), because a 10:1 motor would obviously have a low knock limit. I had the options of dropping comp by means of a HG or rebuild, or trying to flow the head so that it was more efficient and hopefully adding a bigger buffer (sort of like turbo Hondas). The WMI won in the end lol.. Cheapest and least labour intensive and risky from the lot.

With your own setup though, have you put the car on the dyno to see if your fuel pump is letting you down? Monitoring fuel pressure and AFRs on the dyno will easily tell you if the pump is letting you down. If its an old pump it could be shagged, but I think a walbro is up to the task of your power level (in principal).

Not to say dont get the WMI Id love to see your epic setup even better! (FYI my old plates were GR33DY lol)

[JustinP]

I bought the Snow Performance "stage 3" kit. It includes a controller than looks at boost and injector duty cycle and allows progressive injection based on either / both. It includes an in-cabin controller with LCD screen / buttons. I did look at the CoolingMist system too.

I will be running 50/50 water/methanol. I have got a 2.5 gallon tank which should last for months of street use, and should be sufficient for many laps on the track (but you can really chew through it on the track).

I'm going to buy the "SafeInjection" module too which monitors flow and detects lack of flow (blockage) or too much flow (leak). It has an output which I will use to trigger my ECU into a safe and conservative map.

I haven't installed it yet as part of my ongoing R34 build, but will be doing so in the new few weeks. I am running a GTX3071R so I am hoping to run some very high boost through it to get the most out of it, as Mick_o did

Cheers

Justin

[GTScotT]

Would love to see you WMI it on 98 Justin!

Would be awesome to compare 98/WMI vs E85!

[ARTZ]

What you talkin bout Willis????

Your just jealous of that 50 kg of extra weight I'm running due to my powdercoating addiction

Yeh man going well, except we think the old walbro can't keep up with the new huffer so it's booked in for a looksee. So I'm thinking of getting the WMI kit and install it before the booking so I don't have to retune again.

haha..powdercoating ,soundproofing, air conditioning, all luxuries I can do without in the name of fast...

But a quality fuel pump is always a good investment...

[JustinP]

Yep I can't wait Getting close now.

I am hoping the WMI will give similar results to E85 as the boost ramps up, but obviously I won't get the results across the rev range

Stupid WA and our lack of pump E85

Would love to see you WMI it on 98 Justin!

Would be awesome to compare 98/WMI vs E85!

[The Mafia]

Question time

Mafia, by the looks of your pics your just using water yeh??

How long does your tank last?

And is ther much of a gain to be had running water/meth as opposed to just water?

I ran 50% water and 50% methanol. 2L of mix lasted about a tank of fuel without much thrashing.

From What i understand the methanol in the mix will increase the effective octane of the fuel. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Nope. Its actually the water that increases the octane of the fuel. Octane is the amount of retardant in the fuel. The water "gets in the way" and makes it harder to light under extreme pressures, and burn slower. You want your fuel to burn slow, not fast. The longer the fuel is burning for the longer it is pushing on the piston. This means more torque.

The methanol drops the temps a bucket load - Mist some over your hand with a spray bottle and tell me how cold it is.

The combustible properties of the methanol are not intentionally used.

[GTScotT]

You can set your start point low though, and bleed it on slow. I think it will help the entire boosted part of the graph.

Yet you are right, you wont get the 'off boost meat' that I found massive in Micks car

[DaveO74]

I think my issues were an accumulation of parts and a slight possibility of being overcautious in a few areas. I will really be pushing to have the setup work PERFECT before the WMI gets turned on, I DO NOT use bandaids.

My decision to go WMI was built on a balance of raising the motors natural ping resistance (beyond the spastic issues I was having with the old setup), because a 10:1 motor would obviously have a low knock limit. I had the options of dropping comp by means of a HG or rebuild, or trying to flow the head so that it was more efficient and hopefully adding a bigger buffer (sort of like turbo Hondas). The WMI won in the end lol.. Cheapest and least labour intensive and risky from the lot.

With your own setup though, have you put the car on the dyno to see if your fuel pump is letting you down? Monitoring fuel pressure and AFRs on the dyno will easily tell you if the pump is letting you down. If its an old pump it could be shagged, but I think a walbro is up to the task of your power level (in principal).

Not to say dont get the WMI Id love to see your epic setup even better! (FYI my old plates were GR33DY lol)

Really?? And here I was thinking I'm all original and stuff hahahaa.

I hear you with the bandwidth fix, it's not what I am trying to achieve. The car is booked in to go on the rollers on the 18th and until then it will sit in the garage.

My main aim is to get over 300 killerwasps out of my 2835 pro s and to retain the awsome response im getting atm without resorting to e85 as its just readily available enough yet

haha..powdercoating ,soundproofing, air conditioning, all luxuries I can do without in the name of fast...

But a quality fuel pump is always a good investment...

Yep, we are just guessing still at this stage but we "assume" this is the problem until we can have a good look.

Oh btw ARTZ, mine is still quick..........and quiet in cabin..........and has da bling under the bonnet.........and is nice and frosty inside on a hot day.

So bite me

[Hanaldo]

I ran 50% water and 50% methanol. 2L of mix lasted about a tank of fuel without much thrashing.

Nope. Its actually the water that increases the octane of the fuel. Octane is the amount of retardant in the fuel. The water "gets in the way" and makes it harder to light under extreme pressures, and burn slower. You want your fuel to burn slow, not fast. The longer the fuel is burning for the longer it is pushing on the piston. This means more torque.

The methanol drops the temps a bucket load - Mist some over your hand with a spray bottle and tell me how cold it is.

The combustible properties of the methanol are not intentionally used.

How long does the methanol mixture last without absorbing more water? Ie. say I had a kit that was only active above 15psi, so my low boost setting of 14psi wouldn't be using any W/M; would the mixture be ok sitting around in the tank for prolonged periods or do you need to use it quite soon after you've mixed it?

[The Mafia]

How long does the methanol mixture last without absorbing more water? Ie. say I had a kit that was only active above 15psi, so my low boost setting of 14psi wouldn't be using any W/M; would the mixture be ok sitting around in the tank for prolonged periods or do you need to use it quite soon after you've mixed it?

My kit started at 4psi. You are wasting your time if you want to start your WMI at 15psi.

You want to make it spray water when the car is under the biggest load - comming onto boost. Being able to advance the timing in this area means you can also bring boost on quicker.

Also, I left a water meth mix for nearly a month and it was ok.

I mixed it in 2L bottles, and kept one spare.

Here is a tip also, if you are planning a big drag racing day, surround your WMI bottle with ice and insulation, and put out of the fridge mixture in there. I found it to be even better

[Hanaldo]

My kit started at 4psi. You are wasting your time if you want to start your WMI at 15psi.

You want to make it spray water when the car is under the biggest load - comming onto boost. Being able to advance the timing in this area means you can also bring boost on quicker.

Also, I left a water meth mix for nearly a month and it was ok.

I mixed it in 2L bottles, and kept one spare.

Here is a tip also, if you are planning a big drag racing day, surround your WMI bottle with ice and insulation, and put out of the fridge mixture in there. I found it to be even better

Ahh I see, thanks.

The idea I had been toying with for running WMI was simply that I track my car, so I'm worried about intake temperatures. I wasn't going to use it to boost figures so much (though I wouldn't object if it did), but rather as a bit of an insurance policy when running high boost on the track. Not so good an idea?? As of yet I had decided it seems like a bit of a waste of money, I'd probably be better off saving for a Link or Vipec and setting up intake temp trim tables, etc.

[GTScotT]

My kit started at 4psi. You are wasting your time if you want to start your WMI at 15psi.

You want to make it spray water when the car is under the biggest load - comming onto boost. Being able to advance the timing in this area means you can also bring boost on quicker.

I do agree with this but am committed to having a 'no wmi' setting and a 'balls out' setting.

I guess well see how I go

[ARTZ]

Oh btw ARTZ, mine is still quick..........and quiet in cabin..........and has da bling under the bonnet.........and is nice and frosty inside on a hot day.

So bite me

Show off

[DaveO74]

I only do it to impress the biches

[ARTZ]

I'm impresive enough without my car...