Please Help Me With My Very Lazy Gt2860-9's!

[tommis85]

  On 16/07/2012 at 9:34 PM, Hadouken said:

Nope, meant cam gears

Ah ok that's what I thought Well I'm definitely going to have to see your results with the gears. I'm not going to touch mine for a while as I need to put in a new front diff first before I can go anywhere near a dyno. It is currently Australias only RWD R33 GTR

[tommis85]

Haha looks like someone else is having some fun too ;-)

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/142530-rb26-gt-ss-turbos-when-should-boost-kick-in/

[Hadouken]

back in '07 lol

[tommis85]

  On 17/07/2012 at 11:37 AM, Hadouken said:

back in '07 lol

Lol yes that's true but I have read thru it all and it's about GT-SS's which from what I've read are near identical to -9's.

It's funny though...there are many claims across all these forums of what the -9's / GT-SS turbos perform like.

Claims of where full boost of around 20 pounds is reached vary from 3800 to 5700 with the average, especially on my thread, being around 4500rpm (the later sounding quite reasonable) Then there're those who claim that they are more responsive than ceramics, while others claim they're similar to, followed by those who say they're far more laggier and should be avoided. Then, for all these claims we have various dyno plots for cars with similar hardware where one could swear they're all running different turbos haha....that's how varied these -9 results are.

Offcourse, all engines are different....not to mention the skills of the tuners that work with them. I guess I'm just trying to say that it's quite hard to get a proper feel for what these turbos "could" be like.

[tommis85]

I hope mine will come good like his did haha, that is a fantastic result for that fella....the graph looks amazing!

[MrStabby]

Here's the difference of standard turbos to -7s on my car. Very few data points but its still instructive. Yes the ceramics spool faster. If you only cared about response, getting steel wheels on the stockers would probably be a good option. Seat of the pants dyno reckoned that clipped turbine high flows i had spooled more like stockers and -7s.

[sydking]

  On 17/07/2012 at 11:55 AM, tommis85 said:

Lol yes that's true but I have read thru it all and it's about GT-SS's which from what I've read are near identical to -9's.

It's funny though...there are many claims across all these forums of what the -9's / GT-SS turbos perform like.

Claims of where full boost of around 20 pounds is reached vary from 3800 to 5700 with the average, especially on my thread, being around 4500rpm (the later sounding quite reasonable) Then there're those who claim that they are more responsive than ceramics, while others claim they're similar to, followed by those who say they're far more laggier and should be avoided. Then, for all these claims we have various dyno plots for cars with similar hardware where one could swear they're all running different turbos haha....that's how varied these -9 results are.

Offcourse, all engines are different....not to mention the skills of the tuners that work with them. I guess I'm just trying to say that it's quite hard to get a proper feel for what these turbos "could" be like.

I agree there is such mixed opinion, as most of you know i could not decide between -9 and -5 for months. Let alone knowing how my -9s are going to actaully perform when complete.

I Read every dyno sheet for both, Even called a handfull of tuners and spoke to them first hand. And that confussed things even more with them saying they could get -5's on just a quick as the -9s and have much more room for top end later.

But yer as much as results vary its to hard to compare them agaist something becasue nothing is standard and everoynes build/Tuner is diffrent.

as long as your happy with your results then i dont see a point in stressing about it. Though if your way below the acg like you are, Then theres a reason for that which more then likey can be fixed.

[tommis85]

  On 18/07/2012 at 2:46 AM, sydking said:

I agree there is such mixed opinion, as most of you know i could not decide between -9 and -5 for months. Let alone knowing how my -9s are going to actaully perform when complete.

I Read every dyno sheet for both, Even called a handfull of tuners and spoke to them first hand. And that confussed things even more with them saying they could get -5's on just a quick as the -9s and have much more room for top end later.

But yer as much as results vary its to hard to compare them agaist something becasue nothing is standard and everoynes build/Tuner is diffrent.

as long as your happy with your results then i dont see a point in stressing about it. Though if your way below the acg like you are, Then theres a reason for that which more then likey can be fixed.

Yep that's pretty much how it is. And then there's also those tuners out there who whisper sweet little things in your ear about that they can make anything come on lightning quick and then stop talking to you as soon as you handed over your dough Some of these places have no shame or pride in what they do - simply in it for the money and just give you lip service till they get it.

One more thing you can throw into the mix is hybrid versions of these turbos - like, in my travels I came across a set of 2530's with bigger compressor wheels and competition split dumps for the price of new -9's. They probably would have been good but you gotta always ask yourself why they were selling them for if they were so "fantastic" etc.

[tommis85]

  On 18/07/2012 at 1:33 AM, MrStabby said:

Here's the difference of standard turbos to -7s on my car. Very few data points but its still instructive. Yes the ceramics spool faster. If you only cared about response, getting steel wheels on the stockers would probably be a good option. Seat of the pants dyno reckoned that clipped turbine high flows i had spooled more like stockers and -7s.

Yeh well I was looking at those steel wheel kits you can buy before the -7's caught my fancy. A set of steel wheeled stockers with some extra preload on them and EBC would be mental through a mountain pass!! Anyone who's still running ceramics should realy throw on some adjustable actuators and brace themselves

Yeh mate, I think in the 7 years I've had these cars with all sorts of turbo combos I think I'm more of a response man. The lag is all cool when you want to impress your mates but at all other times I personally just find it a pain in the ass. Big singles with their light switch on/off delivery are much more fun for that anyway.

[Hadouken]

  On 20/07/2012 at 11:46 PM, tommis85 said:

Yeh well I was looking at those steel wheel kits you can buy before the -7's caught my fancy. A set of steel wheeled stockers with some extra preload on them and EBC would be mental through a mountain pass!! Anyone who's still running ceramics should realy throw on some adjustable actuators and brace themselves For a explosion

[tommis85]

  On 30/07/2012 at 6:49 AM, Hadouken said:

Yes true true

However, not that I recommend this....but.....I was running my ceramics at a minimum of 15 pounds for 4 years and last year I ran them up to 18 pounds for shits and giggles. I studied up on the causes of the "explosion" and made sure I didn't do what is the biggest contributor to it, ie, shutting off the turbos while they're literally red hot (the theory of the ceramic wheel shrinking faster than the metal shaft thus micro-fracturing the turbine wheel's hub over and extended period of time)

They've also been thru numerous track and dyno days (and that is racing, not putter around happy laps style)

Right now they're sitting on my shelf and they have no play in either axis....and spin as good as any journal bearing type turbo. Offcourse, it could also be that I have a very well manufactured, faultless set of turbine wheels....ceramic's manufacture process was definitely not a reliable / consistent one 17 years ago.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how many of these units have failed and under what circumstances...and, what led up to it.

[Don Dada]

Hmmmm.....I believe the shaft is ceramic too...?

[tommis85]

Hmm not sure right now - may have to check but, it would still support the theory as the shaft, being the shape it is will cool down a lot slower than the exhaust wheel vanes with their massive surface area. It was a pretty good write up...and would explain why they can shatter at as little as "8 pounds worth" of RPMs (whatever that equates too).

But either way. As far as the topic goes....I'm still sitting here with lag monsters haha - need to get at least the rear diff sorted so I can do a proper dyno run without lighting up on the less loaded side GRRRRRRR!! Not happy Jan....not happy at all about all this.

[Moodles2]

It would be an advantage if the shaft was ceramic (I'm not sure, I've never taken one apart), as it wouldn't transfer heat from the exhaust wheel to the compressor where a metal shaft would.

[Hadouken]

I was under the impression that heat and high rpm was the killer

[MrStabby]

  On 30/07/2012 at 9:05 PM, Hadouken said:

I was under the impression that heat and high rpm was the killer

Yep and age, and its pretty much always the rear that goes. I'm guessing that's either to due to the plenum pushing a bit more air into #6, or the PCV venting to the rear turbo, or both.

My ceramic turbine broke off flush with the housing, so yeah its all ceramic.

[Hadouken]

  On 31/07/2012 at 4:46 AM, MrStabby said:

Yep and age, and its pretty much always the rear that goes. I'm guessing that's either to due to the plenum pushing a bit more air into #6, or the PCV venting to the rear turbo, or both.

My ceramic turbine broke off flush with the housing, so yeah its all ceramic.

Did it go to the cat or get sucked back in?

[cobrAA]

with all the new turbos ( i.e: bilelt technology) arent the -9 outdated in the way that you can get the same response but with better power?

[sydking]

  On 31/07/2012 at 6:39 AM, cobrAA said:

with all the new turbos ( i.e: bilelt technology) arent the -9 outdated in the way that you can get the same response but with better power?

Bloody hope not!!

[Hadouken]

  On 31/07/2012 at 6:39 AM, cobrAA said:

with all the new turbos ( i.e: bilelt technology) arent the -9 outdated in the way that you can get the same response but with better power?

Show an example

Have you installed your turbos yet sydking?