Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,

I've been looking into T3 turbine housings for the GT30 series turbos (specifically the GTX3067) which will fit to the standard manifold. Response has been high on my priorities, so the 0.63 IWG housing was originally considered, although was always a bit concerned about boost control.

Always thought it would be nice to find a turbine housing which sat between the 0.63 AR and 0.82 AR housings commonly used. I was pleasantly surprised to have stumbled upon a couple of options which might do the trick.

First one is the Cosworth 3-bolt outlet IWG housing (first pic below):

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-075&Category_Code=GTH

Seems to have a really decent sized wastegate port too:

http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103756

This housing is stated as having a 0.72 A/R, so sits nicely between the two "normal" housings. Seems to me like it could be a good balance between response, top end and also boost control. Downside is I would have to go with a less common outlet flange.

Second option, is this housing which has an external wastegate flange (second pic below):

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-043&Category_Code=GTH

Quoted from ATP website:

"Special turbine housing, T25-EWG-44, T25 inlet flanged, GT28 style 5-bolt outlet. External gated (44mm flanged), flows like a full T3. Available for GT28RS/71R/76R, full size 60mm GT3071R/GT3076R/GT3082R turbine wheel and Stage III (76 trim) turbine wheel. Allows full T3 flow but on T25 flanged manifold. Only available in .72 A/R. .72 A/R is built to GT30 geometry so this A/R is comparable to one that is right in between a .63 and .82 A/R GT30R housing."

Note that although it's listed as T25 it can be optioned with T3 inlet. Also interesting here is that this can be gotten in form which fits the cropped GT3071-WG turbo, so may be a decent option to get HKS 2835 Pro S type performance at half the cost?

Overall second option is less appealing to me because it's another step away from stock looking, plus more expensive due to cost of wastegate and extra plumbing of dump.

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with either of these (especially Cosworth one)? Or even just thoughts on how these might perform would be very welcome?

Hoping the collective intelligence of SAU might shine some light on this.

Cheers,

Mark.

post-83859-0-80345900-1383819783_thumb.jpg

post-83859-0-40757000-1383819792_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/434671-gt30-turbine-housing-alternatives/
Share on other sites

  • Replies 40
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Thanks for the input lads.

Wolverine, guess I've been a bit worried about the response of the 0.82 housing. But equally concerned about boost control with the 0.63 as you've highlighted. Was kind of hoping the 0.72 Cosworth would be a good balance. Admittedly have maybe been a bit hung up on trying something different, e.g. like with the GTX3067.

Scotty, didn't realise ATP housings were crap too. Cheers for the heads up. Read about the AVO / Sonic housings, but not ATP.

So it really does seem the Garrett 5-bolt outlet housings are the only viable IWG option?

I have an ATP twin scroll housing on my GT3076 at present. I had an open Garrett 0.82 on the GT3082.

There isn't much difference between the two (ex gate) on the road. The casting of the ATP housing was ok unlike their T4 based housings (perhaps what Scotty is referring to?) but internally and externally it is a lump of metal that houses the good bits just fine.

In IWG config I wouldn't stuff around with a 0.63 just in case you get boost control issues. Results for GTX3067's are like rocking horse poo on RB's so if you feel like being a test pilot the 0.63 would be the way to go. It might be ok, it might not.

ps. looking forward to seeing your results

I just haven't seen a good result from many ATP housing variations, and they look like they were cast in a kindergarten compared to my Chinese knockoff Tial. They have a good range of housings though.

My mates Subaru specific ATP GTX3071 housing was missing a fair chunk of power compared to my old setup. Every time I hear about ATP it is generally someone complaining about low outputs and poor quality, which is why I now make my own.

As much as I'd like to go external gate, it's most likely overkill for what I'm after. Looking at mods in your sig Scotty, I think we're playing in different leagues, haha.

Part of the reason for the GTX3067 was to try and get GT3071 like peak power (260kW+), but with full boost by no later than 3,500rpm. And to try something new. But yeah paranoid about boost control with the 0.63. Not sure if you guys saw, but pic below is of the wastegate port on the Cosworth housing. That's a US Quarter Dollar (24mm dia) he's holding. Port looks decent sized to my eyes.

Based on the comments, I think I need to do more research. Last thing I want to do is have this (Cosworth) housing be more restrictive than the little Garrett, or worse, crack and fail on me. If the design is good, but ATP castings are crap, maybe I need to look at getting a second hand OEM Cosworth housing from somewhere...

Will definitely post up results when done, but to be honest probably isn't going to be until early-mid next year.

Appreciate the input lads.

post-83859-0-71139800-1383863914_thumb.jpg

Stao does large port wastegates like that, but his are machined. I can't see how the puck would seal properly in that pic...

Can you get the flange? You wouldn't want to have to make that one...

You will need a heavy duty actuator which adds to the cost.

External gates offer much more flexibility with boost settings, and controller setups. They aren't just for high boost applications, although you would need to go external to control boost well at 25+psi imo. If you ever go e85 you will be kicking yourself if you didn't think about it at least.

do it, external gates are mad...

In all honesty, it's better that you direct the heat & exhaust pressure from the rear housing via the external gate. I've tuned a few of my mates car and I find that cars running external gates like more timing (due to less exhaust back pressure) and also better if you're hammering it on the track as the housing doesn't get as hot as an internally gated housing (just my theory).

and the bonus, you can run a screamer pipe on the gate

I'm only theorising but my gut feeling is that the GTX3067R would probably need the Garrett GT30 0.63 turbine housing to spin it fast enough to get boost at reasonable engine revs . From what I researched , the fella at GCG agreed ..

More later been chased away by missus , cheers A .

I'm only theorising but my gut feeling is that the GTX3067R would probably need the Garrett GT30 0.63 turbine housing to spin it fast enough to get boost at reasonable engine revs . From what I researched , the fella at GCG agreed ..

More later been chased away by missus , cheers A .

The plot thickens... look forward to hearing more on this.

do it, external gates are mad...

In all honesty, it's better that you direct the heat & exhaust pressure from the rear housing via the external gate. I've tuned a few of my mates car and I find that cars running external gates like more timing (due to less exhaust back pressure) and also better if you're hammering it on the track as the housing doesn't get as hot as an internally gated housing (just my theory).

and the bonus, you can run a screamer pipe on the gate

Hehe. Even if I did go external would plumb it back. It's going to be predominately a road car so avoiding unwanted attention is a priority. What are the chances of getting an engineering certificate for an external gate set up?

Stao does large port wastegates like that, but his are machined. I can't see how the puck would seal properly in that pic...

Can you get the flange? You wouldn't want to have to make that one...

You will need a heavy duty actuator which adds to the cost.

External gates offer much more flexibility with boost settings, and controller setups. They aren't just for high boost applications, although you would need to go external to control boost well at 25+psi imo. If you ever go e85 you will be kicking yourself if you didn't think about it at least.

Yeah the flange is a concern. Haven't seen one off the shelf, but was planning to talk to my mechanic who's pretty nifty at fabricating manifolds and the like. Plan is to get the "big can" actuator, which is 18 psi I believe.

Good food for thought re: external gate. Maybe I really should be looking at a housing with a more standard outlet. That way if (when) I decide to upgrade again later, can get a larger housing to bolt up rather than having to make a new dump pipe again.

ive tried both the open 0.82 external on a gtx3076 and a twin scroll 0.82external on a gt3076 and if doing things again id opt for an open garrett housing, and make it a 0.63 internal to save money and drama's, Mafia's internal 0.63 worked well from reading his old thread but needed a larger flapper..

I think the 0.82 is not really suited to the street, a 0.63 with ethanol/meth is best match for street I reckon

anyone know if the xr6 ford style rear could be used with an xr6 turbo dump?

Edited by AngryRB

I just haven't seen a good result from many ATP housing variations, and they look like they were cast in a kindergarten compared to my Chinese knockoff Tial. They have a good range of housings though.

My mates Subaru specific ATP GTX3071 housing was missing a fair chunk of power compared to my old setup. Every time I hear about ATP it is generally someone complaining about low outputs and poor quality, which is why I now make my own.

Different engine = different result so it is hard to compare IMO. Was it the same dyno?

I don't think I got a low output from mine but always hard to tell unless we do a back to back swap. Certainly I would have used a Garrett made housing IF one was available in TS at the time. Then again I would have just re-used the open housing I had and saved myself a fair bit of stuffing around.

I'm only theorising but my gut feeling is that the GTX3067R would probably need the Garrett GT30 0.63 turbine housing to spin it fast enough to get boost at reasonable engine revs . From what I researched , the fella at GCG agreed ..

More later been chased away by missus , cheers A .

I think you might be right but if there are boost control issues then the cost of changing is a pain in the arse. External gate it would be a lock.

Different engine = different result so it is hard to compare IMO. Was it the same dyno?

Same dyno, same response from the tuner. He said the compressor is maxed, I said 'how can it be maxed if I am running 80kw more.' Unfortunately it is hard to pinpoint exactly what is restricting flow as everything is restricting flow to some extent.

With a large enough turbo you can push through some of these restrictions. (as the turbo is the main restriction in all turbo setups.) Strangling the engine with a small rear is not a good way to get power or response. If you want a more responsive turbo, go for smaller lighter wheels like a gtx28 or SS1pu. It will probably still get close to 300kw if all the restrictions are sorted.

Something funny happening there with an 80kw drop.

I couldn't agree more with matching the turbine and compressors. In this case a 0.63 with good boost control is close enough but there is no doubt a 0.82 IW will be fine.

Not helping the OP much now but 0.63 with the right wastegate flapper is probably worth being a test pilot.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Back again. I returned to Japan in Jul/Aug to spend time with the car on my birthday and remind myself what all the sacrifice and compromise is for. It happened to line up with the monthly morning meet in Okutama, which I have been wanting to go to for a long time. It's a unique event at a unique spot with really rare, interesting, and quirky cars. It's where all the oldheads and OGs gather. The nighttime scene at DKF certainly has its place and should be experienced if you're into cars, but there's too much bad attention and negativity around it now. IMO the better time is Sunday morning at DKF or Okutama; it's more chill and relaxed. I'm glad I was finally able to go, but not sure it's worth the drive from all the way from Nagoya immediately the day before, unless I was already staying in Tokyo for the days right before the meet, because you have to wake up quite early to make it in time. Funnily enough though I didn't drive the car all that much this trip because it was just too damn hot. While there were zero issues and running temps were nominal and the A/C was strong, RBs already run crazy hot as it is. Sure, it took it all like a champ but something about driving these cars in the ridiculous heat/humidity bothers me and makes me feel like I'm asking too much of it. I'm just me being weird and treating the car like a living thing with feelings; I'm mechanically sympathetic to a fault. Instead I was mainly driving something else around - a KX4(silver) 2001 X-Trail GT, that I acquired in May. There's a few different flavors to choose from with Xs, but visually it's the Nissan version of the Honda CR-V. Mechanically it's a whole different story as this, being the top-trim GT, has an SR20VET mated to a four-speed auto and full-time AWD! It was a very affordable buy in exceptional condition inside and out, with very low mileage...only 48k kms. Most likely it was owned by an older person who kept it garaged and well-maintained, so I'm really happy with how it all worked out. It literally needs zero attention at the moment, albeit except for some minor visual touch-ups. I wanted something quirky, interesting, and practical and for sure it handily delivers on all three of those aspects. I was immediately able to utilize the cargo and passenger capacity to its full extent. It's a lot of fun to drive and is quite punchy through 1st and 2nd. It's very unassuming -in the twisty bits it's a lot more composed than one would think at a glance- and it'll be even better once I get better tires on it(yes, it's an SUV but still a little boat-y for my liking). So...now I have two golden-era Nissans in silver. One sports car and one that does everything else; the perfect two-car solution I think👍 The rest of the trip...I was able to turn my stressed brain off and enjoy it, although I didn't quite get to do as much as I thought. I did some interesting things, met some interesting people, and happened into some interesting situations however, that's all for another post though only if people really want to know. Project-wise, I went back to Mine's again to discuss more plans and am hoping to wrap that up real soon; keep watching this space if that interests you. Additionally, while working in the tormenting sweatbox that is the warehouse, I was able to organize most of the myriad of parts that my friend is storing for me along with the cars, and the 34 has a nice little spot carved out for it: And since it can get so stupid hot in there, that made it all the more easy -after I was standing there looking at the car and said 'f**k it'- to finally remove all the damn gauges that have mostly been an eyesore all this time. Huzzah. The heat basically makes the adhesive backing on the gauge mounts more pliable to work with, so it was far less stressful getting this done. I didn't fully clean it up or chase the wiring though; that will happen once I have the car in closer possession. Another major reason to remove all that stuff is to give people less reasons to get in my car and steal s**t while it's being exported/imported when/if the time comes, which leads us to my next point... ...and that is even though it's time in Japan is technically almost up since it's a November car and the X would be coming in March, I'm still not entirely sure where my life and career is headed; I don't really know what the future looks like and where I'm going to end up. I feel there's a great deal of uncertainty with me and as a result of that, it feels like I'm at a crossroads moreso now than any point in my life thus far and there are some choices I need to make. Yes, I've had some years to consider things and prepare myself, however too much has happened in that time to maintain confidence and everything feels so up in the air; tenuous one might say. Simply put, there's just too much nonsense going on right now from multiple vectors. Admittedly, I'm struggling to stay in the game and keep my eyes on the prize. So much so in fact, that very recently I came the closest I ever have before to calling it quits outright; selling everything and moving on and not looking back. The astute among you will pick up on key subtext within this paragraph. In the meantime I've still managed to slowly acquire some final bits for the car, but it feels nice knowing there's not much left to get and I'm almost across that finish line; I have almost everything I'll ever want for my interpretation and expression on what it is I think an R34 should be. 'til later.
    • Thanks for that, hadn’t used my brain enough to think about that. 
    • Also playing with fire if they start to flow more air down low than what the stock twins can. It's not even up top you need to worry, it can be at 3000rpm and part throttle and it's getting way more flow than it should.
    • Any G40/1000 or G40/1250 results out there?  
    • You still want a proper tune on the stock ECU though. Stock tune + stock ECU with GT-SS/-9s is probably playing with fire if you're running more than stock airflow/power.
×
×
  • Create New...