E100, Cause Of Failed Injectors?

[nicksamaniac]

E100 causing injectors to fail?

Has anyone heard of this before?

I have a gq patrol wagon, rb25/30det.

Since fitting the engine I've driven over 2000km without a problem, only run on 95 or 98. left home for a trip (Xmas break-visiting family 460k away) traveled 160km (without issues) and thought I'd top up on e100, traveled a further 21km then started to run lean and shudder as though it was running out of fuel, then was only running on 4 cylinders,

Long story short, I found after much fault finding that cyl 3 & 4 are not getting fuel, there is pulse to all 6 injectors, but 3 &4 aren't cycling, these are r34 rb25det injectors 270cc top feed style.

Any thoughts or ever heard of this happening?

[scotty nm35]

I assume you mean e10 United 100 octane?

Ethanol is a very good solvent. It will clean your entire fuel system of 20 years worth of varnish and gunk and run it through your injectors, especially if your fuel filter isn't filtering properly. Most suggest changing the filter a few times after filling on e85.

The injectors haven't failed, simply blocked internally. They just need a clean, replacement filter and flow test.

[nicksamaniac]

I mean e100, 98Ron with 10% ethanol added,

I've run it a few times in my Stagea with pretty good results economy wise but can't get it where I live,

I have pulled the injectors out and the baskets where spotless, I also cut open the filter and found only small amounts of dirt, as you suggested, ( I thought the exact same thing) the cleaning of all varnish type deposit will go through the system but found no real evidence of this.

I have heard that ethanol can melt some plastics, although the injectors are made for fuel, could they be susceptible to melting in ethanol and warp/twist inside causing them to lockup?

The bad part is, these injectors where only in until I got larger ones and another tune.

[boostn0199]

Thats not e1oo its e10

[XKLABA]

I mean e100, 98Ron with 10% ethanol added,

from the United servo ? that's United 100 which is basically E10 except it is on a 98ron base fuel instead of 91 that normal E10 uses

E100 means 100% ethanol with NO unleaded

E10 is 10% ethanol with 90 % unleaded

E85 is 85% ethanol with 15% unleaded

etc etc etc

[nicksamaniac]

I can only go off what it says on the pump,

it's labelled as E100 and in fine print says it's 98 with up to 10% added to increase octane.

one thing is for sure, I won't ever buy that again.

[Ben C34]

Isnt it called p100? As in premium 100 octane?

And there's nothing wrong with it, I use it and have never had a problem. heaps of people use it.

Don't blame the fuel for your crusty fuel lines! As Scotty mentioned it will clean out all the crap in your lines.

Edited December 28, 2013 by superben

[GTScotT]

Just going to chime in here and remind everyone that 98+ up to 5% ethanol was the old V-Power 100.

100 Ron E10 is not based on 98 and therefore the base petrol would most likely be of a lower, less refined, variant.

Thus while the ethanol is a great solvent I am not sure if the fuel its mixed with is good enough not to cause deposits. Though using a couple of tanks is not enough to damage a set of injectors... What is more likely is what Scott has suggested, in that the ethanol picked up some sediments from the bottom of your patrol's fuel tank (likely to have been run on 91 all its life, refer to above) and which are now nicely embedded into your injectors.

What I am unsure about in this process is if there is a point of no return for injectors... Or if they can always be cleaned and come good. I have owned a couple of CA18s and when their injectors are gone there is no turning back. Consumption is through the roof and getting them cleaned only seems to help normlise idle quality, a new set is required to get back the economy.

Scott I know you do a little with injectors, your feedback will be valuable if any on the above. I would like to know.

[scotty nm35]

I am only starting to get into cleaning and testing, but you are correct, it is very hard to properly clean all the gunk out sometimes from what I have witnessed, especially with the Bosch ev14's as the filter is internal. I would assume a pressure backflush while being actuated at certain frequencies, and perhaps while in the ultrasonic bath might be needed. As you can see, it isn't going to be easy, or cheap, and as the prices of perhaps better quality and larger injectors comes down, you would need to add up the cost of a decent clean, replace filters and Orings, and flow test, compared to simply replacing them.

Not many injector specialists will have the equipment to test the larger injectors, I am setting up a jig atm to test 6 2000's, it will obviously require a massive pump, and large beakers to measure the flow over a set time. The 1/2L graduated tubes I have will fill in a few seconds. It will at the very least be able to tell me if one or more injector is flowing less than the others, without melting an engine.

[nicksamaniac]

Thanks GTScotT and Scotty nm35 for the more insightful replys.

As I said I have used it plenty in my Stagea with great results, but first time in the patrol,

just a bit more insight, my patrol was on dedicated lpg (rb30 single cam na), but was removed to run straight fuel again (rb30det), the tank was a diesel tank in its former car, lines are stainless tube, hand made (getting 2nd hand ones are hard), alloy surge tank and all New hose. The tank I had to clean with fuel by hand to cleanout all the diesel sludge and wipe it out,

This I think could be the only part that was dirty, apart from the rb25 neo injector rail? Which only got sprayed out with contact cleaner.

-Scotty nm35, I'd be happy to send you the 2 failed units to inspect and get an insight of what has gone wrong or if at all? As I've just bought a set of 6 From a wrecker to get it home and running again.

[scotty nm35]

You can probably stick an old pump on it, with a hose and clamp, and test the spray pattern yourself. Compare a good one to a bad one by spraying it into the missus good measuring cup.

I don't have access to a flow tester at the moment, I just used the wholesalers setup last time I was there. The injector test jig is available fairly cheap these days from China but they won't work with 1000's or 2000's very well, which is why I wanted to make my own using parts I have laying around.