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What turbos is this gtr running

vspecv

By vspecv,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted

SBS...LOL.

This is a question not a statement. I read a post recently from a person that was concerned about needing a sump in his GTR, was running Azenis, susp work and i think HKS 2510s...yet he was lapping Wakefield in 1:13.

Now thats fine and dandy, but my std turbo RB20 R32 with some susp work and exhaust/IC laps Wakefield in 1:13 on street rubber. Is a GTR really at the limit when it is being driven 5-6 seconds off its potential?

I dont think everyone that goes to the track in a GTR needs a sump, nor do i think they should kitten glove their GTR in fear of oil surge, but Duncan in an even more std R33 with good rubber does 1:11s at Wakefield so until you are lapping "whatever" circuit quicker then the average punter in his essentially std GTST i dont think you need a sump...easy for me to say i dont have a GTR :)

Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted
Yeah but you don't care if your mighty workhorse RB20 ends up scattered over the track either.

For the price of a baffled sump you could buy 3 RB20s!

lol...i dont car if it blows up, but i do care if it fails as a result of brain fade on behalf of the driver / tuner :Oops:

...I suspect a 417rwkws GTR needs a baffled sump if its being belted around the track. I suspect a relatively std GTR being driven 6 seconds off its potential isnt such a concern...but if you can afford to buy a GTR, can afford to service it, and can afford to drive one at the track, then i suppose you should be able to afford a baffled sump.

Either way i want 417rwkws :)

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted

I think the major problem with a lot of guys is they want their car perfect before getting on the track, which is pretty disappointing as then they only have themselves to blame then for poor performance.

Last time out I could gripe about poor tyres, speed limited to 195 and rear brakes disintegrating. As long as I don't have to blame my own sad performance I'm having a good time. Plus I don't have the bikkies to take on Ben unless i can borrow a V8SC from some mates in Albury :)

So Dean was this the turbo setup whos presence I was in today? Niiiice.

NRB Rising Star

NRB

Posted
Posted
are u serious, i will prolly have 3 more gtrs and a few porsches by the time u get to the track

You might Mr. Moneybags, but I bloody hope not. The plan is to get out in Spring. I haven't even been out in the damn Mini! Let's see if you can tally 3 more GTRs and a few porkers by then! :Oops:

Sorry I personally don't agree, I have yet to see one single case of damaged bearings in a GTR as a result of the oil itself failing. They have all been oil surge and resulting starvation caused. I don't care what oil you use, if you don't baffle the sump and go on a circuit, you are at RISK.  :D

That's what I like about this forum, we have discussions that don't turn aggressive like I've witnessed on other forums. When I spoke to Ben he told me that it's often due to the grade of oil, not the oil per se. I never said it was due to oil failing. If one's using a 0W40 oil then it's too thin for serious trackwork; one should be using a 10W60 oil that's better at holding oil pressure and of higher viscosity when under extreme conditions. I also never said that we don't need to add a baffled sump in order to track a car... all I stated was that I'd spoken to Ben and was informed that a lot of failures are due to poor oil choice.

I run an oil cooler in my car, and usually add a little more oil on a track day - it was recommended I run 1L more.

Granted an engine is still at risk of failing without a baffled sump and increased capacity, but a car with that upgrade can still suffer spun bearings from oil starvation can it not?

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted

Unlikely it will NRB unless something goes sadly wrong.

I spoke to Ben some monthst ago on the same topic and he was adamant a good oil pump is necessary as well. Mine drops to 4 bar after getting hot so looks like it needs an upgrade. Now to get one at the right price.

Cubes Grand Master

Cubes

Posted
Posted

If the oil pump is dropping pressure when getting hot why not replace the pressure relief valve/spring assembly; the spring is really the only part that may go soft due to age and many heat cycles causing less oil pressure to be held.

Providing Nissan will source one for you. :D

NRB,

When you say extreme conditions you really mean when the oil is operating out side of its optimal operating temperature, hence its weight is reduced. This is the only time I can see a heavier weight oil providing more protection/head room.

Get the oil cooling right and you shouldn't have to worry about running a 60 weight oil. Maybe step up to a 40 weight and that should be fine.

Remember oil provides cooling; a thicker weight oil will not flow as quickly in turn sapping power and won't remove as much heat.

It has also been suggested that the extra effort required to push the heavier weight oil through the motor contributes to some of the heat put in to the oil.

I've done a bit of reading in to oil weights, this is the conclusion I have came to.

I am making the assumption that all oils used are of equal quality.

EDIT: At the end of the day the extra cooling the lighter weight oil provides is probably only a bee's dick. What about the extra power? Again a bees dick?

vspecv Proficient

vspecv

Posted
  • Author
Posted
lol...i dont car if it blows up, but i do care if it fails as a result of brain fade on behalf of the driver / tuner :Oops:  

...I suspect a 417rwkws GTR needs a baffled sump if its being belted around the track. I suspect a relatively std GTR being driven 6 seconds off its potential isnt such a concern...but if you can afford to buy a GTR, can afford to service it, and can afford to drive one at the track, then i suppose you should be able to afford a baffled sump.

Either way i want 417rwkws :D

hopefully mine will hold up, i will let u know in a month or so, but it does have a baffled sump and a hks oil pump

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted
If the oil pump is dropping pressure when getting hot why not replace the pressure relief valve/spring assembly; the spring is really the only part that may go soft due to age and many heat cycles causing less oil pressure to be held.

Providing Nissan will source one for you. :D

NRB,

When you say extreme conditions you really mean when the oil is operating out side of its optimal operating temperature, hence its weight is reduced. This is the only time I can see a heavier weight oil providing more protection/head room.

Get the oil cooling right and you shouldn't have to worry about running a 60 weight oil. Maybe step up to a 40 weight and that should be fine.

Remember oil provides cooling; a thicker weight oil will not flow as quickly in turn sapping power and won't remove as much heat.

It has also been suggested that the extra effort required to push the heavier weight oil through the motor contributes to some of the heat put in to the oil.

I've done a bit of reading in to oil weights, this is the conclusion I have came to.

I am making the assumption that all oils used are of equal quality.

EDIT: At the end of the day the extra cooling the lighter weight oil provides is probably only a bee's dick. What about the extra power? Again a bees dick?

And here I was thinking it was just the oil viscosity reducing with temperature. Definitely worth a try except bloody Nissan designing the oil pump to be impossible to remove without dropping the sump *Wankers*

I'm still in 2 minds to replace the whole pump with a HKS or something like Ben has to maintain 8 bar all day on the track (probably a HKS)

Any thoughts out there on the ideal oil pump?

BTW I also, on the advice of SK, blocked one of my oil feeds to the head to reduce oil surge, making more oil available in the sump for the pickup.

JAGR33 Grand Master

JAGR33

Posted
Posted
And here I was thinking it was just the oil viscosity reducing with temperature. Definitely worth a try except bloody Nissan designing the oil pump to be impossible to remove without dropping the sump *Wankers*

 

I'm still in 2 minds to replace the whole pump with a HKS or something like Ben has to maintain 8 bar all day on the track (probably a HKS)

 

Any thoughts out there on the ideal oil pump?

 

BTW I also, on the advice of SK, blocked one of my oil feeds to the head to reduce oil surge, making more oil available in the sump for the pickup.

skylinegeoff- spoke to Ben yesterday in regards to what oil pump to go for when I rebuild my engine, he swears by the JUN one, don't know why but I trust his judgement......

JAGR33 Grand Master

JAGR33

Posted
Posted

Yeah they're not cheap, best price I could find so far is around $1200 from greenline, and add another $200 for the drive collar, so that's around $1400 + shipping...

Not cheap are they!!!! Then again you pay for quality I guess.....

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted

And Jun are one of the cheap ones. Nismo and HKS are much more...what a rort. It would cost me less to re-engineer them and have inserts made on a 5 axis NC machine to upgrade oilflow which would lead to increased pressure.

Sorry, cannot possibly justify that expense for my application.

JAGR33 Grand Master

JAGR33

Posted
Posted

I see where you're coming from....Well if you've got the knowledge and equipment to modify your own than that looks like the way to go....

But for us 'less' mechanically minded people, I guess we have to bite the bullett and cough up the cash.....

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