R32 Power steering

[Davidbroberg]

Hi Guys!
New to this forum, Recently picked up an R32 Sedan with a swapped SR20DET Engine in it. I have some experience with the SR20 Engine but not so much on the power steering etc.

The power steering is very hard when i purchased the car, the seller liked it and didn't look into it much in the 4 months he owned the car. but I'm not a fan.

Car is running a Haltec E8 ECU, Hicas lock out bar. and i imagine standard SR20 Power steering pump.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue, and give me some guidance and how I might be able to fix it, any help is appreciated

[Sick_R31]

Is the solenoid on the steering rack plugged into anything?

[GTSBoy]

HICAS computer needs:

a) to be installed,

b) not f**ked,

c) wired up,

d) receiving speed signal from dashboard.

 

[Robocop2310]

- I suggest check the power steering pump likely is defective and ensure you have enough fluids.

- Or perhaps a short circuit occurred somewhere like the wiring loom for the oxygen sensor killing that and affecting the power steering. 

- Check HICAS fuses as it is linked to streering. 

- Check speed sensor under your dash

[Ben C34]

17 minutes ago, Robocop2310 said:

- I suggest check the power steering pump likely is defective and ensure you have enough fluids.

- Or perhaps a short circuit occurred somewhere like the wiring loom for the oxygen sensor killing that and affecting the power steering. 

- Check HICAS fuses as it is linked to streering. 

- Check speed sensor under your dash

I admire your desire to help, but there is literally no way, ever, that O2 sensor wiring will affect the steering. Never ever.

[Robocop2310]

1 minute ago, Ben C34 said:

I admire your desire to help, but there is literally no way, ever, that O2 sensor wiring will affect the steering. Never ever.

All good mate but it can happen. I'm not suggesting the O2 sensor is related to the power steering but I have heard R32's wiring looms for the oxy sensor connected to the heater fail which then affected the O2 sensor and killing the power steering. It has happened.  

 

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, Robocop2310 said:

Or perhaps a short circuit occurred somewhere like the wiring loom for the oxygen sensor killing that and affecting the power steering. 

 

1 hour ago, Ben C34 said:

I admire your desire to help, but there is literally no way, ever, that O2 sensor wiring will affect the steering. Never ever.

Actually Ben, as much as it saddens me to say it.....he's right.  Happened on my car many years ago.  Power wire for the heater on the O2 sensor is in the same loom as the PS solenoid.  When it burnt, it took out my power steer.  Was a right diagnostic f**kin' nightmare to find it too.

[Davidbroberg]

After some research and trying to find, these doesn't appear to be a Hicas solenoid (i believe it's meant to be just below the fuse box?)

and upon checking the fuse box. the fuse i can only imagine is for Hicas( PTC Heater / 4WD ) seams to be completely missing and no pins to even plug one in.

Suggestions?

[GTSBoy]

HICAS CU lives under the parcel shelf, driver's side, near the speaker.  Have a look, see if it is there.  If it is not, then you're screwed regardless of whatever else is there or not.

The engine bay HICAS solenoids are huge things, bolted to the chassis rail opposite the (engine) oil filter location.  You can't miss them if they're there.

If someone has gone full jihad on your HICAS system and pulled everything out, you will never get the PS to the correct behaviour without finding a way to get it to do what other non-HICAS Nissans do.  There must be an (electronic) mechanism to change the PWM signal fed to the rack solenoid to affect the assistance.  I haven't looked into how to do it, because my HICAS CU still works.  I have only gone as far as thinking about what would need to be done.  I'm assuming some Arduino based rig to take in the speed signal and put out a PWM to drive the PS solenoid.  Alternative would be to find how Nissan did it elsewise to HICAS and rob the module out of a similar car (Maxima, whatever the hell else was same era).

[Davidbroberg]

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

HICAS CU lives under the parcel shelf, driver's side, near the speaker.  Have a look, see if it is there.  If it is not, then you're screwed regardless of whatever else is there or not.

The engine bay HICAS solenoids are huge things, bolted to the chassis rail opposite the (engine) oil filter location.  You can't miss them if they're there.

If someone has gone full jihad on your HICAS system and pulled everything out, you will never get the PS to the correct behaviour without finding a way to get it to do what other non-HICAS Nissans do.  There must be an (electronic) mechanism to change the PWM signal fed to the rack solenoid to affect the assistance.  I haven't looked into how to do it, because my HICAS CU still works.  I have only gone as far as thinking about what would need to be done.  I'm assuming some Arduino based rig to take in the speed signal and put out a PWM to drive the PS solenoid.  Alternative would be to find how Nissan did it elsewise to HICAS and rob the module out of a similar car (Maxima, whatever the hell else was same era).

Thanks for the long reply, Looks like someone gone full mad, the Computer under the parcel shelf is not there and the Solenoid set is not there under the oil filter location. I don't quite understand why it is, that i need all of this. Excuse my ignorance, but if the computer has been replaced by a haltech ECU, what telling what to do what, or rather what can't tell what to do what that making the power steering so hard?

 

[GTSBoy]

Ignore the Haltech/ECU situation.  It has nothing to do with anything.

Skylines (worth importing) mostly had HICAS.  HICAS did what it was supposed to do, and because it was the steering system, it was thus entrusted with the more basic aspects of running the steering system - including deciding how much assistance to give to the rack.  This is a speed based decision, and seeing as the HICAS CU was being fed a speed signal as an input to its primary task, it probably made perfect sense to just use that one module to do everything, rather than having a separate (steering controller) module as well.

Now, it is completely possible that your car never had HICAS.  If it does have a HICAS lock bar, then it probably did have HICAS.  The rear subframes for HICAS and non-HICAS cars are different and there is no need (or possibility) of fitting a lock bar to a non-HICAS subframe.  So, if you car never had HICAS, then it would have had to have something (a steering controller module) to drive the PS solenoid.....but as I said, I've never looked into what that module would have been. Trust that it would not have been the ECU, though, because they simply don't have anything to do with the steering.

[Davidbroberg]

2 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Ignore the Haltech/ECU situation.  It has nothing to do with anything.

Skylines (worth importing) mostly had HICAS.  HICAS did what it was supposed to do, and because it was the steering system, it was thus entrusted with the more basic aspects of running the steering system - including deciding how much assistance to give to the rack.  This is a speed based decision, and seeing as the HICAS CU was being fed a speed signal as an input to its primary task, it probably made perfect sense to just use that one module to do everything, rather than having a separate (steering controller) module as well.

 Now, it is completely possible that your car never had HICAS.  If it does have a HICAS lock bar, then it probably did have HICAS.  The rear subframes for HICAS and non-HICAS cars are different and there is no need (or possibility) of fitting a lock bar to a non-HICAS subframe.  So, if you car never had HICAS, then it would have had to have something (a steering controller module) to drive the PS solenoid.....but as I said, I've never looked into what that module would have been. Trust that it would not have been the ECU, though, because they simply don't have anything to do with the steering.

Mmmmmk,

So my best guess is that because the computer can't get speed info, it can't tell the solenoid to have lighter power steering, thus it being stuck on hard steer mode? Am i close?

The car definitely has the lockout bar and the computer has been removed, the cable you can see dangling. So i basically just have live with the hard steering? otherwise re-fit the Solenoid/HICAS computer and go from there?

[GTSBoy]

10 minutes ago, Davidbroberg said:

So my best guess is that because the computer can't get speed info, it can't tell the solenoid to have lighter power steering, thus it being stuck on hard steer mode? Am i close?

No.  If the computer that you are thinking of is the Haltech, that is NOT the computer to worry about.  The computer to worry about is not even in the car any longer (that would be the HICAS CU).  Your PS solenoid is currently (likely) receiving no volts.  Thus it gives no assistance.  Put 12V on it and it will go feather light.  Put something in between on it and it will give an in-between amount of assistance - which sort of is OK but will not feel nice all the time.

You do not want to be trying to refit the HICAS CU, just to get the PS working (despite what I said in my first post, which was assuming that the car hadn't been molested quite as heavily as it sounds like it has).  Putting the HICAS Cu back in would bring other problems that will just make your life hard.  So forget about it.  The solenoid you speak of....now, if that's the HICAS solenoid in the engine bay, don't think about it again. It is gone and you don't need it.  (As proof, I offer my car, from which I have removed all the HICAS gear EXCEPT the computer.  Having done a small wiring mod - which is nothing more than pulling one of its loom connectors off! - it is quite happy to run the power steering like it always did, without putting the red HICAS warning light up on the dash.)

Note that I have, at pretty much all times, used the terms PS solenoid and HICAS solenoid when talking about them so that there is no confusion.  The PS solenoid is just a little valve on the rack, that controls how much assistance you get.  The HICAS solenoids (of which there were actually several in the car originally) provided ALL the power that moved the rear rack (and locked it out when there was a fault, in the case of the rear solenoid).  Do not confuse them.

As I have said several posts ago, what you will want to do is work out what either non-HICAS Skylines did to arrange for variable assistance (by speed) or what other common-era Nissans did (if that proves easier) and get one of those modules and wire it in so it can see what it needs (power, speed signal being the obvious ones) and drive the PS solenoid.....OR.....make an arduino based controller that reads the speed signal and drives a PWM output (and probably SSR) to drive the PS solenoid.  The beauty of Arduino is that you can have other inputs on it (like a selector switch or variable resistor control) to vary the weight or change the shape of the assistance curve, and you can completely reprogram it if you make a mess of it the first time and don't like the result, etc etc.  but it requires enough electronics brains to not blow it up.

[Davidbroberg]

I need your brain bro, you're full of knowledge. I will see if giving volts to the "PS Solenoid" Will give any results.

Why is it i want variable assistance by speed? To my knowledge my S13 never did and never needed it

[Davidbroberg]

Believe this would be the solenoid that has a plug... going to nothing.... haha

[GTSBoy]

26 minutes ago, Davidbroberg said:

I will see if giving volts to the "PS Solenoid" Will give any results.

Why is it i want variable assistance by speed? To my knowledge my S13 never did and never needed it

Try 5 or 6 volts initially.  You will need a decent way to create that - able to handle enough current to drive the solenoid.

You want more assistance at low speed to make parking effort low, but you do not want that much assistance when going fast, because you lose all feel.

And the solenoid in your photo is indeed the PS solenoid.  It's bound to be able to pull a few amps at 12V. You could try measuring the DC resistance with a multimeter to get a rough idea how much current it will draw.

[Davidbroberg]

1 minute ago, GTSBoy said:

Try 5 or 6 volts initially.  You will need a decent way to create that - able to handle enough current to drive the solenoid.

You want more assistance at low speed to make parking effort low, but you do not want that much assistance when going fast, because you lose all feel.

And the solenoid in your photo is indeed the PS solenoid.  It's bound to be able to pull a few amps at 12V. You could try measuring the DC resistance with a multimeter to get a rough idea how much current it will draw.

I think it's time to call an Auto Electrician friend, I have no idea about it.

 

Thanks for you help!

[Robocop2310]

Something is either bone-dead or not functional. Time to call the Ghostbusters.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Robocop2310

[iruvyouskyrine]

 

Buy this from jaycar, feed solenoid 6V and its all fixed. Make sure to wire it from a ignition switched power source.