PAR gearset fo street gtr's

[denisgtr]

Hi peeps,

I know this topic has been covered but i would like to hear an updated version of PAR as apparently they're different from years ago.

So I've got a r33 gtr running about 550wkw with a stock gearbox and obviously ive broken the gbox. Ive got a spare gearbox ready to go but im planning on going for 650'ish kw after the gearbox change and putting another stock gearbox is going to be a waste of money and time so im planning on putting a PAR 1-4 synchro set in (1-3 straight cut 4th helical) since they're the best bang for buck and reason for synchro gbox because its a street car with very minimal drag strip use.

 

Ive been hearing and reading mixed things the PAR gear sets most bad things are based on 10 or so years ago so im assuming they werent best a while ago. just wondering if any people are running their gearsets now and what are they're like in terms of reliability with decent power?

 

Also, who's the best person to take to for assembly in Melbourne?

[Dorifudo]

I would also like to know as well, I'm based in NZ and spoke to one quite well regarded gearbox rebuilder told me that they are a cheaper than OS gearsets and have apparently improved alot over the last few years.

[Duncan]

I know I'm answering a question with a question...but where did you find a PAR gearset?  The business has changed a lot over time, moving from local to offshore and then returning to very small scale/specialist local setup. 

Yes, it would be true that any new gears are a very different setup to when they were having quality control issues from the offshore factory.

[denisgtr]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

I know I'm answering a question with a question...but where did you find a PAR gearset?  The business has changed a lot over time, moving from local to offshore and then returning to very small scale/specialist local setup. 

Yes, it would be true that any new gears are a very different setup to when they were having quality control issues from the offshore factory.

I found their website. https://www.par-engineering.com/shop/?filter_car-make=nissan

[BK]

I don't know about the synchro set (I use OS giken in my 33), but I have just had one PAR dog box done for my Nitto 2.8 R32 GTR, and they definitely have come along way since Gerard was involved with the business (is no more). The PAR synchro set is still generally more expensive than an OS giken. As far as I can tell after calling, it's just Haysam Chalak doing all the machining now by himself, and the gearsets are every bit as good as the PPG, really good quality.

Talk to Sam at Neat gearboxes in Adelaide about them, he actually swung me away from the PPG in favour of the PAR and completed my gearbox. This is the straight cut dog box 1st to 4th with the synchro 5th. Has updated 28.5mm 26 tooth GM spline input shaft, billet 1-2 and 3-4 selector forks, OS Giken centre plate and the.most important part, the billet shifter barrel interlock.

This interlock is a must as with the dog box, using the standard sintered interlock with dog engagement it will eventually fracture and select more than one gear at the same time, causing catastrophic gearset destruction. PAR is the only ones who do this interlock for the 5 speed H patterns, PPG uses stock interlock and after talking with Neat gearbox and CRD is the number one reason the PPG fails. Sam said any of the Pfitzner H pattern dogs really should be fitted with a billet interlock. Makes sense really, as dog boxes slam the dog rings together and of course will cause more stress on the interlock from shock loading. I'm really surprised PPG don't / won't make one. This is not really required with synchro only boxes though.

Also with Neat gearboxes the PAR gearset, Nissan 5th / Rev gears and main shaft was fully crack tested, shot peened and isotropic super finished, which strengthens even more. I will report back with updates to see how it holds up once the wick is turned up on the 6466 at CRD. Running Motul 75w-140 in it. So far, really, really happy.

Only thing I will say as a negative is getting the gearsets or parts made up if not in stock can take awhile. This guy really needs to expand his operation as being basically a one man band now they can't keep up with parts supply like Pfitzner can. Give Haysam at PAR a call and see what the availability is like first, he's a good guy to talk to.

[BK]

A few shots of the box. Has a modified 10 plate transfer behind it with an ATS triple plate clutch.

[WR33KD]

I’m running a full dogbox in my r33 1-5 straight cut and I don’t see why people say you can’t drive them on the street, it’s fine just a little loud. Takes a little bit to get used to but I have no problems driving it to the super market or picking the kids up. One huge advantage having a straight cut box is you don’t need to use the clutch to shift up at any rev, makes racing of any kind that much better. Have to add that the guys at PPG are always free to talk if you have any problems or wish to no anything and if something was to brake there only a stone throw away to get a new part

[BK]

He is asking about PAR engineering, not PPG. Pfitzner is fairly well documented as there is a lot more in existence.

4 hours ago, WR33KD said:

One huge advantage having a straight cut box is you don’t need to use the clutch to shift up at any rev,

Dog engagement over synchro you mean, as straight or helical cut gears have nothing to do with clutchless shifting, and is essentially the reason you get a dog box. You go straight cut gears as the load on the gear tooth is even, as opposed to helical which causes a thrust / side load effect. The more torque you have the more this becomes a problem, which is why I'm very surprised the OS-88 and PPG sequentials are helical, and the main reason I have not purchased one. If I want a sequential it would most certainly be a Holinger.

[Duncan]

Well, I'd say they are both helical simply because most buyers are street cars, and straight cut boxes are too noisy for most people. Not to say it can't be done, but the whine is unavoidable and annoying without a helmet on...

The actual market for race boxes is much smaller, and there are specialist suppliers.

[BK]

I was referring to the OS Giken OS-88 sequential and the PPG GTR sequential. They are race transmissions. Who buys one of these without competition in mind to some degree and Who would buy one for a dedicated street only car ?

[Duncan]

people with coin to spend on their street cars

I can't speak for drag racing but circuit racing in Aus won't allow for sequential boxes in anything gtr based.

[BK]

 

9 hours ago, Duncan said:

people with coin to spend on their street cars

I suppose so, I'm probably one of them too ?

Drag racing you can run anything, its all the other stupid ANDRA rules. Aren't there guys is Perth running GTRs with sequentials for circuit ? Obviously sequentials are the box of choice for time attack too. Are they allowed in Tarmac rallies ?

[Duncan]

Well like so much in life WA is a bit different ? AFAIK they run a modified version of CAMS IPRA rules there.  But otherwise no, and no in tarmac rally was well (GTRs are in early modern LMS which requires factory shifting). Time attack is different again, not having a sequential there would be like turning up with a thousand hp.

Bottom line, most racing gearboxes in Oz are either standard or dog+straight cut H patterns.

[Taha]

Hi my mate  had  a  box built by  hasam chalach and highly recommend  it he had blown 4 stock boxes   at the  time   

[BK]

cool, because if I grenade the box SAU will be the first to hear about it. I think I went out on a limb because I've had the Trust / Quaife 6 speed dog three times and had my heart set on a PPG. The Trust 6 speed is a wicked box, I just think the gearset gears are made from not so great material compared to PPG or PAR. Out of the the 3 Trusts I completely smashed one on 3rd, but that might have been me with a 3rd to 4th gear staging burnout on MT ET streets before I'd hit the staging water ( dry sticky burnout). Other difference I've noticed is the box changes better than the Trust. I think it is because the teeth on the dog rings are further apart, giving more time to engage gear in comparison. 6 dog teeth compared to like 8 or 9, and chunkier teeth too. I really hope I can report in say a years time and say the PAR engineering was the right choice. All up we are talking about a $12k gearbox for the PAR. The PPG by comparison was going to be $15.5k, so not a lot in it when you're talking $10000 plus box. Almost in sequential territory but I was set on the combo I have, which PPG couldn't do. Fingers crossed ?

By the way its Haysam (Sam) Chalak, the PAR engineering gearset machinist. Not to be confused with Sam Charlick in SA from Neat Gearboxes, the assembler / engineer.

[Taha]

Best of luck  with it I have ppg sequential  in my car  now beast of a gearbox   more a race box then a street box 

[Taha]

Made top 10   last vid  was a 408 with a 2300 on e85 got eliminated by renu auto built 33 with a gtx42 went 9.0 @150  by 2 cars was happy with the car for a  stock bottom end  6466

[BK]

What time are you cracking now with the PPG sequential ? How much was just the box upgrade ? My quote from PPG direct was $23.5 k for them to do the box. Sound close ? Really wanted a sequential but changed my mind as the car is still more street than race.

[BakemonoRicer]

I dont think a PPG sequential takes away anything from the GTR as a street car, if anything it really improves it.

But obviously a H pattern is cool, but if I was paying more than 10k I wouldnt want the lag between gears that a H pattern inherently provides....

[BK]

sequential dog is not necessarily faster at all than an h pattern dog under clutchless shifts , but it does take the error out of shifting, as it can be easy to stuff up your shift across the gate from 2nd to 3rd. Look at this years gtr challange, I think you'll find that the fastest Gtr with a clutch pedal used a ppg 5 speed h pattern. Ill have to look at it again but I know he does 8's on the drag strip too, not just Coota. The price difference between sequentials and H pattern dogs is still quite a massive gap too. No one is getting into a sequential for less than $20k now.

I prefer an h in the street as you can go direct to neutral, select reverse easily and skip gears. I don't need to shift it like a motorbike box going down from top gear individually. For circuit or drag it would be hard to beat a sequential for ease of use though.