Price check isle four plz ^^

[sexy_tool]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forums, linked here by a mate who was trying to prove that there are skylines that'll do under 8s. The reason why, is i told him i know of a certain HQ that also does under 8s. Now for you un-enlightened in the Holden area of car ownership, a HQ is a very early tank-like model of kingswood, and you can definately expect them to weigh more than a skyline, or even the latest commodore.

They weight 1800 KG and for all their weight and the fact that it's using a decades old 308 engine, i wanted to know how that compares to this day + ages brand new technology. Now that i know that some skylines are in fact done up to be 8s or better cars, the thing i want to know about now, is cost. The reason why, is that my beleif has always been that holdens will get the same performance, for a lower price when compared to a jap car. Not that i don't like jap cars, to be perfectly honest the 300zx fairlady z is one of my favourites... more because of the attraction than the performance lol. However, i am a proud australian, and i'm sick of hearing jap car lovers bag the crap out of my beloved holdens, which i know can already can quite easily keep up with most modded cars out these days.

So can you all do me a big favour, especially enthusiasts like FORCEFED RB26DETT, and post a little information please? I don't need specs, just a rough price range, and what speeds you pull down the 1/4 would be great thx

[lang]

The reason why, is that my beleif has always been that holdens will get the same performance, for a lower price when compared to a jap car.  

well, my r32 GTR cost me about 15'000 including compliance and everything else, it should have no trouble running a 12 second 1/4, as many cars with identical mods to my car have run these times, on street tires.

my challenge is to you, to show me a holden that costs 15k or under that will out accelerate, outhandle or outbreak my car

[wrxhoon]

Have a look at this link , you will see a lot of street driven gtrs doing low 11's on street radials and normal weight , around 1500-1600 kg . Try that on a Holden V8 , any Holden V8 .

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/timeslips.php?

The HQ Holden that will do 8's will be just a shell and a purporse built drag car costing aound the $100 k plus . There will be no 308 in there i can assure of that , she will have a huge V8 , probaly a big block Chev and a huge blower over the bonnet . She will be tubbed

with huge drag slicks and weigh well under the street weight of a HQ . A normal HQ V8 kingswood would weigh around the 1400 .

[someonestolecc]

What wrxhoon said.

Having said that a GTR is quite a capable drag car, but whether it's a big block or a TT it's going to cost a lot of cash to get to 8's.

[sexy_tool]

This is the mis-conception my friends.

This HQ is not only street legal, but i can also assure you that it's definately a 308, and that a HQ's stock curbweight is 1800kg. If you don't beleive me, then that's your option. However i must point out that i'm not a holden "fan boy" just because they are australian and look good. There is valid reasons behind it.

However little i know about the car other than the above statements, i can tell you for a fact that my ex-boss's car, an ex-pursiut VP with a 308 and about 10k spent on the engine, already does 11's. He hasn't done any major mods to it yet, about the most serious thing he has done is to put a better exhaust system on it and a 2.5 highstall + shift kit.

[slow13dude]

If you're not a fanboy (and I am not suggesting you are), please find out more about the car and let us know. As you indicate, the weight of the HQ is 1800KG, which is rather heavy. To get a low drag time without Nitrous and fight the power-to-weight issue you're going to have to do a lot to the car.

Plus in comparing Japanese to "Aussie" cars you have to remember the different philosophies:

"Aussie": displacement is king

Jap: forced induction to create more power, or create power more efficiently using the same displacement for NA. Plus weight balance and handling are just as important as the KW figure. Examples:

RB26DETT: "206KW" using forced induction for 2.6L inline-6 engine

VQ35DE: "206KW" using naturally aspirated induction for a 3.5L V6 engine

"350" in HQ: "206KW" using naturally aspirated induction for a 5.7L V8 engine

The beauty of Japanese automotive engineering is not the on-paper figures however, but the quality of engineering, the efficiency, the reliability and the refinement.

The Japanese aren't stupid. Why not just expand the RB26 to an RB60DE and create mega power? Because that's not their aim.

[lwells]

outbreak my car

Not much will break more often than an R32 GT-R

[lang]

hehe whoops, i was in a rush to leave for uni

no 8 second car is street legal in australia, street registered possibly, street legal NO, and if you want me to go into the reasons why im more than happy to.

308 and about 10k spent on the engine, already does 11's. He hasn't done any major mods to it yet

i consider 10k spent on a 308 to be reasonably major mods, unless your trying to tell me the shiftkit highstall and exhaust cost 10k

i dont know why im going into any of this tho

[riggaP]

My R33 ran a 13.8@101mph with a bleed valve and full exhuast (i.e less than $1k spent). That was with 205 tires too. I'm yet to see any 308 Holden match this time with similar mods/money spent. My brother has spent more on his VS and it doesnt even pretend to keep up...

[sexy_tool]

Yes riggaP (almost typed niggaP there O.O my bad) the 10k has been spent on the entire low + top ends of the engine + running system. IIRC he's got racing spec belts, a spiralmax intake manifold mod, extracters, new exhaust, widened valves and i'm probably missing something, but that's generally the type of work he's done. Very small modifications that can easily be done by himself when he's got the time at home. The shift kit + highstall mods were put in during one day he had off, not sure of the price / time it took to put in, but he says all up he's spent 10k on the engine and 20k on the body (and yes the body looks nice ).

And the last word i have in the matter about which is better, skylines or holdens, i think i'll just point out that your car has a turbo, does it not? does your brothers tho? Try racing him in an area where you can both reach max speed, and also check to make sure he's got good gear / diff ratios for drags, if that's how your comparing cars.

and Lang, when i get back to perth i'll ask my ex-boss about this HQ, as i'm in syd atm and i don't have anyway to contact him (long story short i don't want to ring interstate for the sake of a small internet discussion, and that's my only option). And the man that owns this HQ is somehow related to my ex-boss, so he got the parts bought + installed cheap. Obviously this doesn't mirror normal expenses + costs to get high end RWHP, but that's the sort of thing i need to ask the guy that owns the HQ as well, is the retail prices.

Lastly @ slowdude, i've seen an article on a 755HP 253 4.2l baby v8 NA. Not turboed... so if you think holden engines can't be about refinement, and good manufactoring or quality etc i think your barking up the wrong tree. I think you'll find that australian and american car companies put alot more money into engine research than the japanese ever will.

[riggaP]

And the last word i have in the matter about which is better, skylines or holdens, i think i'll just point out that your car has a turbo, does it not? does your brothers tho? Try racing him in an area where you can both reach max speed, and also check to make sure he's got good gear / diff ratios for drags, if that's how your comparing cars.

I may have a turbo but my bro has double the displacement. Yes, his car is awesome up top but driving to a salt lake to prove he has a higher top speed seems pointless. His car is slower over the quarter, drinks more fuel, and doesnt deliver the power as smoothly.

Its strange how, for some people, ignorance just works...

[slow13dude]

Lastly @ slowdude, i've seen an article on a 755HP 253 4.2l baby v8 NA. Not turboed... so if you think holden engines can't be about refinement, and good manufactoring or quality etc i think your barking up the wrong tree. I think you'll find that australian and american car companies put alot more money into engine research than the japanese ever will.

Sorry mate you've just proven you are a fanboy. The Germans and the Japanese are renowned for having the best automotive engineering. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Dee 33]

Under 8 second quarters on a street legal car with only 10k of mods...

Why are we bothering with this discussion?

[someonestolecc]

I think you'll find that australian and american car companies put alot more money into engine research than the japanese ever will.

"We need to work through the release of the new Commodore next year and then we need to see how we can get a business case up for the new Monaro," Holden spokesman Jason Laird said.

"It wasn't possible to engineer another coupe while developing the new Commodore", he said.

"The organisation can only do so much at once."

I'll assume otherwise till it's proven..

[wrxhoon]

This is the mis-conception my friends.

This HQ is not only street legal, but i can also assure you that it's definately a 308, and that a HQ's stock curbweight is 1800kg. If you don't beleive me, then that's your option. However i must point out that i'm not a holden "fan boy" just because they are australian and look good. There is valid reasons behind it.

However little i know about the car other than the above statements, i can tell you for a fact that my ex-boss's car, an ex-pursiut VP with a 308 and about 10k spent on the engine, already does  11's. He hasn't done any major mods to it yet, about the most serious thing he has done is to put a better exhaust system on it and a 2.5 highstall + shift kit.

You have no idea dude , a V8 HQ holden weighs nowhere near 1800 kg .

The 1975 HJ ( just in case you dont know its the model after HQ ) 4 door gts with a 350 weighs about 1430 kg .

Just as you dont have any idea how quick 8 sec 1/4 mile is , if you think you can do that with a car that weighs 1800 kg with street radials , you live in another world . To do so in a naturaly aspirated 308 pushrod donk , you must be dreaming .

Go to the drags and watch to see what e.t.s road legal cars run .

[Mulkers]

a 'boat anchor' (253) in a stock VB is slower than the 202.

Naturally aspirated, (assuming it hasn't had the $H!t stroked out of it,) it would be impossible to acheive those sort of figures without changing every component of the engine; ditch the POS carby for a $$$ fuel injection system, Custom made head with 4 or 5 valves per cylinder, Quad cams, and $$$$ of development.

the fastest street REGISTERED (not street legal,) are running high 8's or low nines at best, (Keir Wilsons GTR, Munros GTR etc,)

The fastest street registered V8s are doing poorly in comparison, let alone street legal cars. Most simply can't get the traction to get such a time

[PHATGTR]

I think you'll find that australian and american car companies put alot more money into engine research than the japanese ever will.

I think you'll find you're wrong!

I would hardly call push rod technology advanced :confused:

[sexy_tool]

Well mulkers, i suggest you have a look at back issues of Street Machine if you beleive so, you don't get any more reliable I also suggest you actually learn what you are talking about, because if you have a look in the places where people can afford to spend *REAL* money on their cars like america, you'll realise that any medium to large V8 will *easily* do under an 8s.

PHATGTR; I think you'll find that *your* wrong. Holden have continually spent money on research and have obviously found nothing better than the 308 engine, considering the only time a new engine was even considered for holdens was when General Motors took control of the company and started putting the LS1 and LS7 GenIII 3.7l V8's into the newly produced machines.

Where as Nissan have done nothing except make stuff up after stuff up with engines, forgoing the "reliable" RB2x''s. As lwells said "Not much will break more often than an R32 GT-R"... please show me a commodore or any holden less than 10 years old that breaks as much as a brand new GT-R?

Wrxhoon, where do i start? Look at the GTS label on that HJ and you'll realise that it's a race designed car. It's *supposed* to be lighter than a HQ family-oriented car. I think i've said enough on this point, moving on now...

Slowdude; The germans aren't renowned for having the "best" manufactoring, thy're known for having the most *precise* manufactoring. And that's because the absolute error margin for a mercedes benze for example, is .001mm, where as in australia, and japan, you'd be lucky to see a .01mm absolute error. Simply put; get your facts straight. Even the worlds dodgiest designs will work if they are put together properly... i think the original beetle proved that point.

Dee 33, read the thread. I didn't say a 308 with 10k mods was pulling 8's...

someonestolecc; strange how all of that took place after GM took control of holden, isn't it? Not to mention that none of those statements directly relate to engine development.

Now lastly people, if i haven't put your noses too far out of joint, can ytou get back to the topic please? The original topic? Thank you

[elbee111]

Why bother ?

El Bee

[MANWHORE]

Hahaha. that's hilarious. I find my skyline very reliable. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about the Holdens that my dad has owned. I keep telling him, but he won't listen. HE IS A BOGAN. HE LIKES HOLDENS.

Dad's vs bogandore was recalled 4 times in the first year. His vn before that was recalled about 3 times before he got fed up and sold it because it was such a pos.