Ceramic Coatings - Dumps and Front Pipes.

[iruvyouskyrine]

I think you hit the nail on the head. External screamers are generally very short and most are 45mm or bigger so there would be really no gains to be had.

[GTR_JOEY]

Forgot to mention mine are plumbed into the dump pipe haha

[GTR_JOEY]

Anymore thoughts?

[The Bogan]

Joey, there's a joint in Moorebank called "Flame Coatings" that do industrial stuff, I spoke to them and they can do car parts, you just need to take it to them so they can see it to quote.

Might be worth a look.

[GTR_JOEY]

Cool thanks mark, I'll check it out

[GTR_JOEY]

Gave them a bell Mark, they quoted me around $500 for 1.5m of 4 inch dump, exhaust Manifold and turbine housing..seems fair

That's without doing the gate pipes, I don't think there's any real gains to be had by doing the gate pipes as I don't think there will be any sort of restriction to flow there.

Thoughts?

[The Bogan]

I would wrap them for the heat, I would coat and wrap everything anyway as I feel that the lower the engine compartment temps the better.

As long as the bits are not stainless.

Have you fixed yours yet?

The 5 might get to stretch it legs soon as I'm hoping to do Huntley on 01 Feb.

[GTR_JOEY]

Picking the engine up soon

The dump and pipes are stainless, am I missing something here?? Should I not do them?

That's mad, you will have to tell me how you go.. If love to do that hill climb eventually

[The Bogan]

Due to its metallurgy stainless tends to work harden and crack, dependant on its quality and engineering.

This usually will only happen where the heat is most extreme and there's some form of engineering issue like tight bends, seams or if it is bearing weight.

The coatings should be fine but I wouldn't wrap stainless.

I've had 2 stainless manifolds in my time and about 20 steel, only 2 have cracked, and they weren't the steel ones.

The initial one I got for the old boat lasted 1 track day before it cracked at the turbo mounting plate, I had it fixed and then it cracked along the pipe of one of the runners.

That's when I had that pretty steam pipe one made up through unigroup, that never had a issue and glowed like the fires of hell on lots of occasions.

Plus steel is cheap and lasts for years anyway.

Do you the the feeling I don't like stainless exhaust manifolds.

Then again I may have just been unlucky and inferior materials were used???????

[GTSBoy]

Stainless exhaust components like to crack to pieces when wrapped.

[GTSBoy]

Stainless exhaust components like to crack to pieces when wrapped.

edit* Beaten to it.

[GTR_JOEY]

Definitely getting the feeling you don't like stainless haha

The manifold is a full race steam pipe manifold so that should be ok to coat along with the turbine housing

I'm gonna give the guy would built the gate pipes and dump pipe a call and see what he reckons though i shouldn't have any dramas coating them as they won't see the same temps as the manifold

Am I right in saying that??

[Roy]

Has anyone seen the stainless actually crack or it crack along the seam weld? I have only ever seen them crack in the welds.

Frankly depending on what manifold it is I wouldn't have a problem wrapping them as long as you put some thought into it. Every cracked manifold I have seen has been a tubular manifold with welds with no/poor/inconsistent weld penetration. Never seen a manifold made from stainless pipe (vs tube) crack. The wall thickness is the cheap insurance and reason why people have far less issues with mild steel. IMO stainless is actually superior if done right

[sucram]

Full race manifolds are basically a stainless steam pipe

If you compare it to a china manifold, while it might be 2.8-3.1mm thick, the way they are made vary greatly, they are mig'd then a tig is run over to make it look like its been tig'd. Penetration varies and hot spots cant be seen as they "polish" them.

I would coat the lot.

I would even coat the exhaust all the way to the rear muffler. The heat off even the cat back section increases cabin temps, if you have carpet it will start to deteriorate the carpet just in front of your passenger seat on the hump for the cat. Even if it hasn't had a cat for 10 years! If you plan to track your car or drive in Sydney on 35deg + days its a no brainer, might cost an extra $80 since they can only do the outside but will reduce radiated heat

Seen heaps of jap manifolds crack at the welds, its prob 99% of where I have seen cracks. Im not an expert on welding and can only do enough to get me by. If I had to say 1 reason, is because they are not really that thick and the weight of the turbo/gate/poorly hung exhaust cracks it or a combo of both.

[Griffin]

I have just finished a turbo swap where I had to mod a dump pipe that was wrapped on top half only. As seen in pic it was cooked to the point of shedding layers on the inside and outside. Had to remove 3 layers before it was able to be welded.

It's mild steel Btw. I definitely wouldn't wrap anything.

[The Bogan]

I use VHT paint prior to wrapping, this negates the corrosion.

The way I see it is if wrapping/lagging is good enough for heavy plant and ships its good enough for my car.

As for the dump that corroded, was it painted prior to wrapping, and what did it cost, I would guess it wasn't painted and it would have cost about $80 for a new one to be fabricated.

I do agree that high quality stainless pipe with good engineering should out last the life of the car.

[GTSBoy]

I do agree that high quality stainless pipe with good engineering should out last the life of the car.

There's a BIG difference between "high quality stainless pipe" and the typical stainless tube that is used for making exhaust components. Especially those that come from ChinaBay. Most stainless grades that are specified as being used in those sorts of products are probably a long way from the adulterated crap that they actually get made from.

With respect to lagging of industrial pipework and so on....there's almost no applications in industry where something like an exhaust manifold or turbo dump would be exposed to 700-900°C gases flowing on the inside an be wrapped on the outside. We just don't do that sort of crap. If it is going to run that hot on the inside we will use refractory lining (fire bricks for the layman) of some sort to serve as the first line of protection. Refractory will serve to keep the hot gases off the metal and act as an insulator. The steel might still end up running at a surface temperature of 150 - 400°C (depending on what and where we're talking about), but at least it's not in direct contact with the hot gases.

Where (really) hot gases absolutely have to be in contact directly with the metal, then there is no way that external insulation will be used. Lagging hides mechanical failures.

[GTR_JOEY]

thanks lads, I took it down to see Abdul from flamed coatings... seems like a really genuine guy so im gonna go ahead and use him.

Going to get the gate pipes done as well, as discussed I don't think it will make much of the way in performance gains but im really only trying to stop the radiating heat.

Sucram im just doing up to the cat for the moment, then once its running again ill get the rest of the system done. Im also getting the gate itself done (not the diapgram part) but the part where the gasses flow,once again to reduce radiating heat.

cheers for the help

[GTR_JOEY]

Also I'm assuming its ok to ceramic coat the inside of the turbine housing?

[GTSBoy]

Always a tough question. The big fear is that any internal coating that comes off might cause nasty damage to the turbine. Of course, it might not do any damage. What might trash a ceramic turbine might not scratch an inconel one.

I think the general concensus amongst guys who do coatings is that they'd relatively happy to coat the inside of brand new housings that haven't had a chance to be impregnated with carbon and impurities. Less happy with used housings. By the same token, that could just be paranoia and maybe there are guys out there who have coated heaps of used ones without any problem at all.

I do know that for the ceramic coatings I've looked at getting applied to industrial burner components, the first step is to make sure the (brand new 253MA or inconel) parts are scrupulously clean. Washed to within an inch of their lives. That's bright, clean shiny alloy, not old, grody cast iron.