Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi Guys -

May be someone out there has a conclusive answer, to the question as to whether throttle response and mid range torque is scarificed for top end when installing a 3" dump/front pipe and hig flo cat.

I've heard some conflicting reports but basically 2 exhaust guys have now said that I will increase turbo lag and scarifice throttle response by opting for a 3" dump/front pipe and hi flo cat. They have said that that the 3" dump/front pipe and hi Flo cat will really only give better top end improvement but I'm not interested in this as I want the car to have good throttle response and less turbo lag. If what they say is true then it may be bettter for me to spend the money on an APEXI FC ECU which would give a better all round result

FYI - I have a R33 GTST series II with a NISMO 3.5 " cat back s/s exhaust, the car is currently running a turbosmart boost controller (ie on about 9psi), K&N Panel Filter, ligthened flywheel, GFB Stealth BOV and a NISMO hevay duty clutch . The car runs fanstically and is very street drivable. The guy who previously owned the car in japan worked for NISMO and I'm thinking that for the reason increased turbo lag that this may explain whay he did not run a Full Exhaust on the car.

I would appreciate any INPUT from those who have undertaken the dump/front pipe and hi flo cat to their R33 GTST

Thanks

NISGTS

I would have thought a high flow cat woudl increase responsiveness? Not sure about turbo lag however? More flow = less restrictive = more response (im most general situations anyway). I have a cat back system aswell and am looking at getting a split 3" dump/front pipe and no cat (from what i have heard i can expect approx 20kw minimum power gain and more response). Bosimporting have dyno proof on one of these forums of the advantage of the split 3" pipe and high flow cat versus stock parts and they got quite a big gain in HP.

I would have thought a high flow cat woudl increase responsiveness? Not sure about turbo lag however? More flow = less restrictive = more response (im most general situations anyway). I have a cat back system aswell and am looking at getting a split 3" dump/front pipe and no cat (from what i have heard i can expect approx 20kw minimum power gain and more response). Bosimporting have dyno proof on one of these forums of the advantage of the split 3" pipe and high flow cat versus stock parts and they got quite a big gain in HP.

Thanks for the response.

I'm led to undertand that the increase in k/w is at the top end, and that the freer and less restrictive the flow the less back pressure, this in turn neccessitates less response and and bigger turbo lag.

I would appreciate feed back from any one who has undertaken the dump/front pipe with a hi flo cat, to see if their has been better throttle response and less turbo lag.

The issue with some of the dyno figures that are given and the gains attributted to the dump and hi flo cat is that it focuses on top end and the k/w gain going flat out, at hi to maximum rpm. A good street car is one that can give the best overall response, and linear torque through out the rev range, not just a large burst.

hmm.... when i got my frontpipe and dumppipe i noticed an increase in responce.... i was under the impression that with any turbo car the bigger the exhaust the better? as u want the highest pressure difference possible on your exhaust wheel of your turbo??

The exhaust system does not give your engine it's backpressure.

The turbo does. By changing the exhaust system you allow the turbo to extract gasses more freely which means that turbo response INCREASES. Boost will come on sharper and you will be less likely to spike or overboost.

The smaller the exhaust system, the less boost you are able to run.

I know the above to be fact, however, I will say this:

I don't personally have dyno proof of when the power change is in a 3 inch system but I can assure you that it definately won't make it laggier. It will only remain the same or increase response.

yes, bigger exhaust less restriction and more response down low as well as up top

there is a good thread on here somewear where sydneykid was dyno testing different cats and from memory the best was a four inch high flow cat, even on a three inch systyme

and i personly must recomend the twin dump pipe from ces racing.com.... theres defenently 20+ kw there!!

i could not belive the difference it made as far as low rpm spool is concerned and it keeps the power on at high rpm and after the gearchange!

Dave

Edited by r33freely

I noticed a HUGE difference after fitting a split dump pipe and hiflow cat. Car came on boost a low earlier, was much nicer to drive down low and off boost, and top end was significantly improved too. Easily the best mod you can do, and you won't look back!

I got the split dump pipe from CES Racing as well ;)

Maybe you guys would know...... I've got a complete 3" exhaust stsyem but the cat is a reasonably old ( maybe 4 years ?? ) 3" catco. Anyone got any idea how much difference it would make to fit a new metal cat / stainless steel cat etc ?

Will a top $ cat make any real difference to the performance you've talked about ?

my guess would be that your 4yr old cat would be full of carbon and crap, your proberly best to go the 4"... ill try to find that thread i was talking bout before

i know you can get a good high flow 3" stainless steel cat from just jap in sydney for about $170.00 if thats any help

Dave

I went from a stock exhaust to a full 3", turbo back, highflow cat, resonator, large rear muffler. All straight through.

The full exhaust made made the car feel as if it was freeier at low rpm, every where had picked up power/response.

my guess would be that  your 4yr old cat would be full of carbon and crap,  your proberly best to go the 4"... ill try to find that thread i was talking bout before

i know you can get a good high flow 3" stainless steel cat from just jap in sydney for about $170.00 if thats any help

Dave

I guess after 4 years it would be pretty crappy huh.....

Are the ones from Just Jap the ones with the stainless body & stainless biscuit ? ( with 200 holes per inch ) ?? I think they now sell those barrel style ones.

I'm just not sure how much difference a $450 cat makes compared to a $150 cat <_< ( Which, I guess, is the same sort of question as the first post ).

mine cost $650 from memory and that is the ceramic coated one wich was $100 dearer or so... looks awsome!!

ill send you a good close pic if you like, i also have pic of it next to the standard pipes ect

Dave

Edited by r33freely

Send pictures, I have been trying the get close up picture of the CES Split for ages,especially around the turbo/wastegate split and the re-entry of the wastegate pipe...

I had a thread up a while ago with a comparison...can't seem to find it...

EDIT: Found it :lol:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...opic=86654&st=0

Edited by Bobjones

Damo.. should be! BATMBL sells his dump/down pipe for $400 in mild steel, and reckens it should yield 15kw.

The bigger dump pipes will flow more exhaust gasses, and gas when hot is a larger volume than when it is cold... so bigger piping up the front is going to account for a lot.

Apparently having a split dump pipe is better for flow, but only noticeable if the wastegate pipe is very long... like the combined dump/down pipe that BATMBL sells. The shorter "HKS" ones may not be any better than a single bellmouth design, as the gasses don't split from the exhaust for very long, and when it rejoins the exhaust the shortness of the dump means the wastegate pipe joint/weld comes in quite sharply.

Thanks for the replies guys... I think i'll give BATMBL's dump/down pipe a go seeing as it is a fair bit cheaper.

The bigger the better. You are trying to get the gases away from the turbine outlet as quick as possible.If the dump pipe has seperation of the exhaust and waste gate streams , even better. Look at how much you want to spend and how you use your car and take it from there.

A 4 yr old cat shouldnt bee too bad. If it was a high flow 3" provided and you haven't got huge mods I wouldn't think this would be much of a restriction. If you're worried take it off and see if you can see through it. You can kind of tell if it looks restrictive...you won't be able to see through the other side. Actually the term high flow is a bit of a rort. I't more about the body size. A 3" high flow is usually just a slightly bigger body and flanges.

Edited by benl1981

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Well, apparently they do fit, however this wont be a problem if not because the car will be stationary while i do the suspension work. I was just going to use the 16's to roll the old girl around if I needed to. I just need to get the E90 back on the road first. Yes! I'm a believer! 🙌 So, I contacted them because the site kinda sucks and I was really confused about what I'd need. They put together a package for me and because I was spraying all the seat surfaces and not doing spot fixes I decided not to send them a headrest to colour match, I just used their colour on file (and it was spot on).  I got some heavy duty cleaner, 1L of colour, a small bottle of dye hardener and a small bottle of the dye top coat. I also got a spray gun as I needed a larger nozzle than the gun I had and it was only $40 extra. From memory the total was ~$450 ish. Its not cheap but the result is awesome. They did add repair bits and pieces to the quote originally and the cost came down significantly when I said I didn't need any repair products. I did it over a weekend. The only issues I had were my own; I forgot to mix the hardener into the dye two coats but I had enough dye for 2 more coats with the hardener. I also just used up all the dye because why not and i rushed the last coat which gave me some runs. Thankfully the runs are under the headrests. The gun pattern wasn't great, very round and would have been better if it was a line. It made it a little tricky to get consistent coverage and I think having done the extra coats probably helped conceal any coverage issues. I contacted them again a few months later so I could get our X5 done (who the f**k thought white leather was a good idea for a family car?!) and they said they had some training to do in Sydney and I could get a reduced rate on the leather fix in the X5 if I let them demo their product on our car. So I agreed. When I took Bec in the E39 to pick it up, I showed them the job I'd done in my car and they were all (students included) really impressed. Note that they said the runs I created could be fixed easily at the time with a brush or an air compressor gun. So, now with the two cars done I can absolutely recommend Colourlock.  I'll take pics of both interiors and create a new thread.
    • Power is fed to the ECU when the ignition switch is switched to IGN, at terminal 58. That same wire also connects to the ECCS relay to provide both the coil power and the contact side. When the ECU sees power at 58 it switches 16 to earth, which pulls the ECCS relay on, which feeds main power into the ECU and also to a bunch of other things. None of this is directly involved in the fuel pump - it just has to happen first. The ECU will pull terminal 18 to earth when it wants the fuel pump to run. This allows the fuel pump relay to pull in, which switches power on into the rest of the fuel pump control equipment. The fuel pump control regulator is controlled from terminal 104 on the ECU and is switched high or low depending on whether the ECU thinks the pump needs to run high or low. (I don't know which way around that is, and it really doesn't matter right now). The fuel pump control reg is really just a resistor that controls how the power through the pump goes to earth. Either straight to earth, or via the resistor. This part doesn't matter much to us today. The power to the fuel pump relay comes from one of the switched wires from the IGN switch and fusebox that is not shown off to the left of this page. That power runs the fuel pump relay coil and a number of other engine peripherals. Those peripherals don't really matter. All that matters is that there should be power available at the relay when the key is in the right position. At least - I think it's switched. If it's not switched, then power will be there all the time. Either way, if you don't have power there when you need it (ie, key on) then it won't work. The input-output switching side of the relay gains its power from a line similar (but not the same as) the one that feeds the ECU. SO I presume that is switched. Again, if there is not power there when you need it, then you have to look upstream. And... the upshot of all that? There is no "ground" at the fuel pump relay. Where you say: and say that pin 1 Black/Pink is ground, that is not true. The ECU trigger is AF73, is black/pink, and is the "ground". When the ECU says it is. The Blue/White wire is the "constant" 12V to power the relay's coil. And when I say "constant", I mean it may well only be on when the key is on. As I said above. So, when the ECU says not to be running the pump (which is any time after about 3s of switching on, with no crank signal or engine speed yet), then you should see 12V at both 1 and 2. Because the 12V will be all the way up to the ECU terminal 18, waiting to be switched to ground. When the ECU switches the fuel pump on, then AF73 should go to ~0V, having been switched to ground and the voltage drop now occurring over the relay coil. 3 & 5 are easy. 5 is the other "constant" 12V, that may or may not be constant but will very much want to be there when the key is on. Same as above. 3 goes to the pump. There should never be 12V visible at 3 unless the relay is pulled in. As to where the immobiliser might have been spliced into all this.... It will either have to be on wire AF70 or AF71, whichever is most accessible near the alarm. Given that all those wires run from the engine bay fusebox or the ECU, via the driver's area to the rear of the car, it could really be either. AF70 will be the same colour from the appropriate fuse all the way to the pump. If it has been cut and is dangling, you should be able to see that  in that area somewhere. Same with AF71.   You really should be able to force the pump to run. Just jump 12V onto AF72 and it should go. That will prove that the pump itself is willing to go along with you when you sort out the upstream. You really should be able to force the fuel pump relay on. Just short AF73 to earth when the key is on. If the pump runs, then the relay is fine, and all the power up to both inputs on the relay is fine. If it doesn't run (and given that you checked the relay itself actually works) then one or both of AF70 and AF71 are not bringing power to the game.
    • @PranK can you elaborate further on the Colorlock Dye? The website has a lot of options. I'm sure you've done all the research. I have old genuine leather seats that I have bought various refurbing creams and such, but never a dye. Any info on how long it lasts? Does it wash out? Is it a hassle? What product do I actually need? Am I just buying this kit and following the steps the page advises or something else? https://www.colourlockaustralia.com.au/colourlock-leather-repair-kit-dye.html
    • These going to fit over the big brakes? I'd be reeeeeeeeaaaall hesitant to believe so.
    • The leather work properly stunned me. Again, I am thankful that the leather was in such good condition. I'm not sure what the indent is at the top of the passenger seat. Like somebody was sitting in it with a golf ball between their shoulders. The wheels are more grey than silver now and missing a lot of gloss.  Here's one with nice silver wheels.
×
×
  • Create New...