Whos Interested In The Gt3076r/gt3037 In 52 Trim ?

[_Ryan_]

It seems that I won't be satisfied with my car running a GT30 from the above posts, all of the above replys have helped

The money spent on turbo/ecu/injectors will never be seen again when i sell the car, so if i replace the turbo with a low km neo unit and sell the car and use the funds i would use for the mods with the sale price, i would be in evo6/FD3S/33GTR territory, all of which can easily do 12's.

Thanks all for the input, looks like it saved me a lot of money and heart-ache.

-Ryan

[bradsm87]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I got bored the other day and started playing with photoshop and removed the other maps from this one...

[discopotato03]

Thats the same result I got with liquid paper . I'm still curious about the 0.70 AR and at one stage I did find mention of large frame GT bush bearing turbo using a 52T GT37 compressor wheel .

In this day and age its probably woth looking at the GTX3071R and trying to work out which ones most suitable .

Gut feeling is that the lack of a port shrouded compressor housing was what may have caused issues with the original GT3071Rs .

[RS500]

Gday all,

thought i'd revie this thread seeing as though i'm looking to buy a 52T 3076R for my car.

the question i'd like to ask though is;

* is there a difference (in terms of spool/response/flow) b/w the standard T04E A/R .60 4" comp housing & the T04E A/R .60 comp housing with 3" intake (non-port shrouded - ala HKS GT3037)?

the reason i ask is b/c i'd like to retain the standard 3" intake pipe.

many thanks.

[discopotato03]

Can't believe I started this thread nearly six years ago .

It was HKS that spent the developement dollars on these GT3037S/GT3076R turbos something like 18 yrs ago . They would not have gone to the trouble of specing port shrouded compressor housings if these turbos didn't need them because they increase production costs .

From memory the 4 cylinder versions for SRs CAs sometimes had plain snout T04E compressor housings and that probably had something to do with fewer larger cylinders in 2L etc fours not being as likely to have compressor surge problems .

Generally turbos that have small turbine housings tend to be a bit more surge prone particularly with large compressors and especially large trim large compressors . Things like GTRSs (GT2871r-52T) also have port shrouded comp housings to stop them surging at full throttle lowish revs .

There will always be some debate over conventional GT3076R-52Ts with 0.63 AR turbine housings and I still tend to think is a smidge too much turbo for the 63 housing particularly in 56T compressor form . Sadly Garrett never gave us the competition spec 30 series turbine TR30R turbine which would have been lighter and more responsive in its 73 or 76 trims . No GT30 84 trim turbine based turbo will ever be what I'd call responsive regardless of what compressor or turbine housing it has . By todays standards the GT30 turbine wheels hub is too heavy and bulky and it has arguably too many blades and 84 trim IMO is too big . They will only get off their arse and do something about it when other manufacturers start to win their sales .

There is a combination I thought about after speaking to Mark at GT Pumps and that is possibly using FPs HTA73 compressor wheel on a Garrett GT30 BB cartridge . I did search to see if anyone had tried this and I tink some may have in the US . It would need carefull consideration given to its compressor housing style and turbine housing AR . HTA I did read stood for hydraulic turbine assist and may have had its grass roots in diesel turbo design . Anyway the feeling is that FPs HTA compressor and housing combinations help get these lard arse Garrett GT30 UHP turbines off their butts and up to compressor pumping speeds a little earlier .

If you've followed this GT30 turbo saga you will have read about David Buschur screwing some phenominal amount of horsepower out of a Mitsy Evo engine with a "HTA3076R" . I remember thinking the torque numbers were very high as well .

The HTA73 wheel may pull the power numbers down a bit with less compressor flow but the big question is how far back would the boost threshold come ? If it made "only" 400 RWHP would it be enough ? I reckon it'd be a juggle to work out turbine housing size and comp housing size to keep the hot and cold side gass flow rates in balance - and spool the thing up without comp surge reasonably early . Were the number 600-650 Hp/tq ?

The hassle is trying to get the best of both worlds out of a heavy big trim turbine because you are trying to work around this turbines dated technology .

If you could scale the 76 trim 53.84mm GT28 NS111 turbine exactly as it is up to 60mm major diameter it would have fewer compromises IMO . It may not support the absolute top end horsepower a GT30UHP turbine will in big or 1.06 AR turbine form but if you're shredding tyres at mid rage revs who cares .

As for a stag or GTR I think its an RB30 or put up with higher rev power in its RB25/26 , power to weight ratio just isn't there for sprightly performance unless you can run a supercharger/turbocharger combination a la Lancia or VW . Close gearing would be good but an 34GTR trans with 4.4 diffs would be exy .

A RWD Skyline that makes big torque at lowish revs just spins them up and goes nowhere . I can't keep my GTS25Ts rears planted with a GTRS so all a GTR30R would do is add more lag and spin them even harder . My efforts are going into Caltex Eflex to get better just engine performance and those Pilot Super Sport tyres should turn up in a few more weeks . Everyone needs traction ahead of performance because lack of traction is an expensive nowhere with more performance .

A .

[Lithium]

There is a combination I thought about after speaking to Mark at GT Pumps and that is possibly using FPs HTA73 compressor wheel on a Garrett GT30 BB cartridge . I did search to see if anyone had tried this and I tink some may have in the US .

You can order a FP GT3073R HTA now, I've been making noise about the potential of these on RBs for a while.

A RWD Skyline that makes big torque at lowish revs just spins them up and goes nowhere . I can't keep my GTS25Ts rears planted with a GTRS so all a GTR30R would do is add more lag and spin them even harder

No, a GT30R is more progressive/predictable in terms of throttle input - the poorly matched (to an RB25) GT-RS can go for full spool even at partial throttle and still fries the tyres, you're more likely to all or nothing with a GT-RS than with a GT3076R once you reach the boost threshold of either turbo. A GT3076R will allow you to moderate torque more predictably and keep within the tyres ability to transmit torque. if you are at a speed that the full torque can be sent through, the GT3076R setup can whistle happily away and leave the other RB25 setup to choke on its NS111.

[wolverine]

Decent tyres and a fiddle with the suspension will be less tyre frying using the little fella. That turbo is perfect for Disco's aim once he gets it intercooled better, tuned and suspension/tyres sorted out.

[Checkbuzz]

No, a GT30R is more progressive/predictable in terms of throttle input - the poorly matched (to an RB25) GT-RS can go for full spool even at partial throttle and still fries the tyres, you're more likely to all or nothing with a GT-RS than with a GT3076R once you reach the boost threshold of either turbo. A GT3076R will allow you to moderate torque more predictably and keep within the tyres ability to transmit torque. if you are at a speed that the full torque can be sent through, the GT3076R setup can whistle happily away and leave the other RB25 setup to choke on its NS111.

You aren't wrong about the GT-RS being poorly matched to an RB25, it might be OK for the street but for track work it is seriously out of it's league and way too small.

I've just upgraded to a GT3076R from the GT-RS because I kept warping exhaust manifolds and turbo flanges due to the excessive heat caused by the restriction the turbine poses and 10 minutes of track work. This heat was also causing detonation.

In the process of trying to work out what the cause of this problem was my tuner and I have found a total of 6 people (Melbourne locals only so god knows how many are there nationwide?) running the RB25/GT-RS combo experiencing exactly the same problems (i.e. warping manifolds and flanges + detonation). A couple of experienced turbo engineers have also backed up these experiences with their own.

It's strange how everyone recommends the GT-RS as the ideal turbo for the RB25 when the facts really don't seem to back it up.

HKS make big claims for this turbo on a RB25 and in this case they are just kidding themselves and everyone else... so much for the famed HKS R&D!

Moving on.

After reading this thread and a few others and taking advice from some "real world" turbo experts I have opted for the GT3076R 52T (0.82 A/R) with the 4" port shrouded compressor housing (seriously why wouldn't you? If you already have a 3" intake simply buy a silicone 3"-4" reducer job done), custom split dump & front pipes and a custom 3"-4" intake.

The car is currently in the shop, the turbo is fitted, the exhaust fabrication has been completed and I'm hoping it will be on the dyno this week.

I'm getting excited about the results and very interested to see just how linear and progressive the power delivery is compared with the GT-RS.

I must say a big thanks to Disco, Lithium and others for imparting their extensive knowledge and advice on turbo's in these forums. I have learnt a great deal and hopefully this time around I've made a much better, properly informed decision on a turbo that is fit for purpose!

P.S. With the GT-RS producing 245rwkw (18psi) the only way to get decent traction in low gears was with semi-slicks, a mechanical LSD and a well sorted suspension package.

[R31Nismoid]

Decent tyres and a fiddle with the suspension will be less tyre frying using the little fella. That turbo is perfect for Disco's aim once he gets it intercooled better, tuned and suspension/tyres sorted out.

+1

Long as he doesn't go circuit racing and running more boost than he should, he won't have any problems at all.

[discopotato03]

I wouldn't blame a turbo if you try and work it too hard , if you run it too hot thats your choice not the turbos . I'd say the reason this doesn't happen with the std Hitachi turbo is because the ceramic turbine shits itself . Many years ago RC from Garrett US said that even a GT2530 can use a 0.86 AR turbine housing and HKS was silly not to have them made in T3 flange style . It would have been better if slightly less responsive on a GTRS .

They should have also done the smaller GT Pro S turbine housing in 0.73 AR rather than 0.68 because 0.73s are a good trade off size for a GT30 turbine .

As has been said before the limiting factor in a GTRS is its turbine housing AR size not its turbine . If you look at turbine maps the 0.86 AR housing puts its gas flow rate closer to a GT30 UHP turbine in a proper GT30 0.63 AR turbine housing .

My package has not been properly tuned yet but I don't exactly find my GTRS lightswitch like on my RB25 , not to date anyway . I was planning on going to about 1 bar because I'm chasing an all round result not a number .

No I don't plan to race mines just a road car , for driving within legal speed limits it should be fine .

This turbo came for reasonable money for a complete second hand kit and was intended to replace the standard ceramic turbine unit whilst not giving much if anything away . At the time I was barely driving this car enough to keep the battery charged and not sure where I was going with it . Now its a daily and for what it gets used for its turbo is fine .

I have a new GT3076R 52T 0.82 AR in the box it came in and if I thought it would suit my needs I'd use it . Again as mentioned elsewhere I'm more interested in Eflex E70 tuning and if it burns cooler and proves to be significantly more detonation resistant it may give better results than those tuned on 98 PULP .

Lith I know you won't agree but IMO the way a GT3076R spools on anything is a factor of turbo size , its the big trim turbine that makes them come up slowly . The thing is if you don't rev constantly past 3500 revs do these turbos do much down low ? Do you get much shove at 80ks in 4th or 100 in 5th ?

I don't ratbag round the streets and touch wood I never get pulled over except for the occassional RBT .

Also this mention of boost at less than full throttle , I think this is a good thing in a road car and I can only wonder what fuel consumption must be like in a car that won't boost at less than WOT .

Anyway different people like different things and being a target on public roads is not what I want to be . I don't need to drag others I've nothing to prove .

I spend so many hours in cars and locomotives that geting there in one piece is the no 1 priority . Today started out of Parkes with a 1730 m express freighter at ~ 2:20 and worked it through to Gunning . Then jumps in the late model Bommerdoor for the run back to Sydney and then into my car for the run home . Nothing over 120 more like 110 and now too rooted to drive anything . I don't need a 500 Hp turbo to do 120 much less the mostly 60-80 round the burbs .

[Lithium]

I was planning on going to about 1 bar because I'm chasing an all round result not a number

The higher the boost, the fatter the torque spread - but 1bar sounds like a sensible place to stop with a GT2871R. When tuning cars which have equivalent setups to yours I have done things like spike peak boost at low rpm (ie, 3500rpm) up to around 17-18psi and then bleed them back to 1bar at high rpm, the power deliver can be significantly improved without maxing out the turbo.

This turbo came for reasonable money for a complete second hand kit and was intended to replace the standard ceramic turbine unit whilst not giving much if anything away. Lith I know you won't agree but IMO the way a GT3076R spools on anything is a factor of turbo size , its the big trim turbine that makes them come up slowly . The thing is if you don't rev constantly past 3500 revs do these turbos do much down low ? Do you get much shove at 80ks in 4th or 100 in 5th ?

Agreed, and I have stated before that I think you are probably one of those cases where a GT-RS would suit. Thats because you are trying to use the RB25 for something which isn't it's strength, so you're wasting most of its rpm range and potential - though there is obviously nothing wrong with that if you like driving it that way and you're getting what you want from it, and its not going to be spending time in the area that the GT2871R will choke it. And you are right, 80k+4th/100k+5th you don't get the most pull from a GT30R (though its not exactly the least either, I always used 4th from 80k and if I shifted to 4th for 100k acceleration I was being a ratbag). The thing is this is a GT3076R thread, and not everyone want to use their RB25s like a nice sounding diesel.

I have a new GT3076R 52T 0.82 AR in the box it came in and if I thought it would suit my needs I'd use it . Again as mentioned elsewhere I'm more interested in Eflex E70 tuning and if it burns cooler and proves to be significantly more detonation resistant it may give better results than those tuned on 98 PULP

It will give really good results on E70+, and I look forward to seeing what they are. Sometimes the lack of detonation you get with ethanol (you can still get pre-ignition though, quite easily) can mask a bad match but EGTs etc can still get silly if you spend a bunch of time with the turbo maxed out.

I think this is a good thing in a road car and I can only wonder what fuel consumption must be like in a car that won't boost at less than WOT .

This thread isn't about GT45Rs, its about GT3076Rs. I wasn't talking about a GT3076R needing full throttle to make boost (FAR from it - from you saying that its clear you can't have driven one), more the fact that a GT-RS could go to full boost even if you don't want it to. That is more likely to adversely effect fuel consumption than a turbo that does what you want it to.

[wolverine]

The GT-RS will end up returning similar numbers in fuel economy and will be worth running with about 17psi or so and it will be totally fine on the street.

[Lithium]

With a good tune and sensible driving fuel economy should be comparable between the two, with the GT3076R will be capable of using more fuel if the drive opts to use the extra power it has - no magic there, more power is a result of more air and fuel, it'd be a good street car, but I'd not personally run it on 17psi for anything more than power runs or quick pulls.

[wolverine]

On the street how long can you keep a car at WOT?

The stagea had it tuned with 18psi and there was no warped flanges or any other issue as the time spent on full noise is so limited on the street. So like you said for power runs or quick pulls it is totally fine to run around those levels.

[Lithium]

On the street how long can you keep a car at WOT?

On the street strictly speaking with this kind of power you should NEVER be at WOT, so if being sensible is your primary concern stock is more than enough.

Some people use their cars on the track

[wolverine]

Strictly speaking Lith, Sydney traffic requires WOT 12 to 13 times every morning and every night.

How else can you be the first person to arrive at the next red light?

Seriously, you Kiwis have no idea how good things are in Sydney.

[Lithium]

Maybe its time to move to Oz But a GT-RS is still too small haha

[WMDC35]

Strictly speaking Lith, Sydney traffic requires WOT 12 to 13 times every morning and every night.

How else can you be the first person to arrive at the next red light?

Seriously, you Kiwis have no idea how good things are in Sydney.

unfortunately most kiwis know how good it is over there!

[Checkbuzz]

Bit of a thread hijack but while we're talking about it... Here is how I see it (and please correct me where I'm wrong):

HKS rate the GT-RS at 400HP on a RB25DET. They recommend it for drifting and racing applications on the same webpage.

(This is not the same rating as a Garrett GT2871R which is rated at 380HP on a 3l which is about 320HP on a 2.5l)

My GT-RS was producing 245rwkw on 18psi and a conservative tune with regard to AFR's and timing (i.e. a track tune).

At 15psi it was only producing 215rwkw.

By my reckoning 245rwkw is about 300kw or 400HP at the flywheel so roughly in line with the manufacturers rating for this "race approved" turbo

It cost me $2700 direct from Japan and I fully expected to be able to use all 400HP.

If I only wanted 215rwkw I could have saved myself a shitload of money and got a hi-flow for about $1200 (and don't I wish I'd gone done this path now!)

Further to this I have since found 5 others in VIC alone that have experienced these exact same problems with the GT-RS/RB25 combo which smells f**king fishy to me.

I guess either all of our tuners must not know what they are doing or HKS are full of it.

[RS500]

hi guys,

thanks for such detailed information even though it was a simple question ;-)

Disco,

would you by any chance have the part number for the T04E A/R .60 (without anti-surge snout)?

given i'm looking to team up the core with a Kando/kINUGAWA .73, i dont expect to run into the surge area of the compressor (although i could be wrong).

the primary aim is to retain the original 3" intake piping.

Also, do you have any info/specs on the FG XR6 GT3576R?

i'm keen to know exactly which compressor wheel is being used.

thanks boys, great info as always.