Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Mitcho_7]

That you can barbell flat bench 100kg or more for reps

Edited October 30, 2012 by Mitcho_7

[-FIGJAM-]

barbell and dumbell are two different things though.

I can lift heaps more (not that its much) on barbell then what I can with dumbells.

stabaliser muscles all come into effect with DBs and one arm can compensate for the other (to some degree) with BB. I also find that I go a lot lower with DBs then I do with a bar

[SRS13]

Just the way you talk it up

Nah just kidding. I thought you were doing decent weights on some of the lifts so thought you'd do more on that exercise.

[Birds]

That you can barbell flat bench 100kg or more for reps

Fair enough, easy assumption to make then. There's a few factors that contribute to it being "low".

For starters, unless I'm mistaken your flat bench should always be higher than your incline. The 35s are max weight sets, so they are done after 2 sets of 30s, after 2 sets of 25s...and after 6 sets of flat bench...which all leaves me pretty wrecked by the time I get to them! I've never tried incline dumbells fresh, they are a supplementary exercise for me, so the numbers aren't too important for me to compare. I also started flat benching long before incline, so flat bench has had a lot more time to gradually step up

[Birds]

Sort of related:

Was flat benching lastnight and I always like to push it (pun) until I can do no more...this can mean 10 long seconds to get the bar up on the last rep...during which time other people helpfully/annoyingly come over and go to grab the bar, thinking I'm about to drop it lol. It's nice that they have your back, but when you're putting everything you have into it, it's extremely difficult to talk and politely tell them "don't touch the f**king bar!".

[markos]

Good answer Birds, what weight we lift on assistance exercises is not important, far too many factors, as you pointed out

Its like some dick telling us how much he curls, irrelevant

Again, a case of majoring in the minor shit

Not one of my lifters has ever maxed an assistance exercises before doing the main lift. Even our 250-300kg box squats are done AFTER squatting

[jangles]

Sort of related:

Was flat benching lastnight and I always like to push it (pun) until I can do no more...this can mean 10 long seconds to get the bar up on the last rep...during which time other people helpfully/annoyingly come over and go to grab the bar, thinking I'm about to drop it lol. It's nice that they have your back, but when you're putting everything you have into it, it's extremely difficult to talk and politely tell them "don't touch the f**king bar!".

I've always been under the impression that you should stop 1 before you max out to failure.

In saying that, if your form is the same as the first one guess you're not failing.

[Birds]

Good answer Birds, what weight we lift on assistance exercises is not important, far too many factors, as you pointed out

Its like some dick telling us how much he curls, irrelevant

Again, a case of majoring in the minor shit

Not one of my lifters has ever maxed an assistance exercises before doing the main lift. Even our 250-300kg box squats are done AFTER squatting

See, we're not so different afterall

What are the benefits of box squats after squats, as an assistance exercise?

[markos]

With different size boxes we can target the lifters weakest part of the lift, where his leverage cant overcome the weight, everyone has this point on every lift, others we would never fail lol

We also do pause squats to teach confidence in the hole, and finish with BB lunges, maybe GHR afterwards

[Mitcho_7]

I can't bench much more with the bar than with dumbells. On incline I can probably do more with dumbells actually. I think tha is purely because I have just always used dumbells because it was slightly safer when training alone.

I do incline bench first and then flat bench, because my upper chest was lagging a bit...

[markos]

Mitch, can you do me a favour mate, can you please post up an Anatomy chart and show me the upper chest

I've looked long and hard, cant find one.

Check where the pec insertion points are, the entire muscle contracts

Its a bodybuilding myth, you cant alter the shape of your muscles, and if it doesnt exist on an anatomy chart, it doesnt exist, unlike the different heads for deltoids, which are on the chart and do exist

Just sayin

I no I'm the Lone Ranger on here, but the truth is the truth

[Mitcho_7]

Look again?

The pec has two heads. Sternal and clavicular, named after where they originate from. Sure they share a common tendon and both heads will contract in flat bench and incline. But in incline bench the emphasis is placed more on the clavicular head due to position on the arm in relation to the torso.

Just because two seperate heads of a muscle share a common tendon doesn't mean the same movement will impact both heads equally. Take you deltoid example. 3 heads originating from slightly different spots and all insert at the same point on the humerus. So why doesn't overhead press give you big rear delts? Because of the position of the arm in relation to the torso. Sure the rear delts will still contract in overhead press but not to the same degree that they do in reverse flyes or barbell rows and that's why they don't get big doing only overhead press.

I wasn't suggesting I can alter the shape of my clavicular pectoral head, I was saying I wanted to stimulate growth in it more than my sternal head to even them up. Which is why I changed to doing incline first, where I can lift a bigger weight for more rels and recruit more motor units in the clavicular head than I would doing it afterwards in a fatigued state. Which hopefully helps stimulate hypertrophy in the clavicular head.

Sorry if I was unclear with my statement.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Mitcho_7

[markos]

Anatomy chart please Mitch, showing me the upper chest, no need for an explanation, just show me

[Mitcho_7]

Any decent anatomy book will clearly label the clavicular pectoral head.

But i get the feeling you are just nit-picking at the fact I called it "upper chest" instead of specifically referring to the clavicular pectoral head. In which case, chill out and excuse me for being a bit lax with anatomical terms on a forum. Even my anatomy professor has called it the upper chest.

If you are saying there isn't actually a clavicular pectoral head then that's more of a worry.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Mitcho_7

[markos]

Mitch, all I'm saying is for years people think that by changing an angle or a grip they are hitting a different muscle etc, like guys that do preacher curls for lower biceps and concentration curls for the peak

They are trying to train muscles that dont exist, just like the upper pecs

Do incline presses, my guys do them every single bench session because they are an awesome exercise, not because they are hitting a fantasy muscle

We love the training effect we get out of them.

Our "upper" pecs are no more developed than anyone that doesnt do them

ps What did your anatomy professor press?

Edited October 30, 2012 by markos

[markos]

A variety of resistance exercises can be used to train the pectoralis major, including bench pressing (using dumbbells, barbells or machines at various angles such as decline, incline and flat where the hips are above, below and level with the head respectively), push ups, flyes (using dumbbells or machines at either flat or inclined angles), cable crossovers or dips. This muscle is often said to consist of four portions (upper, lower, inner and outer) but the pectoralis actually contracts evenly across all heads during most exercises and as such no portion can be 'targeted'

I f**king hate having to go look for references on a topic I know through 30 years of lifting and training people. And I didnt need a proffesor to tell me.

Anyone thats ever lifted would know this if he paid attention, rather than read it in a book

[Mitcho_7]

I'm not saying your not correct because you have probably forgotten more than I know about strength training.

However, until you send me a link/point me in the direction of a reference that is valid, which shows that, then I'm inclined to remain skeptical.

[SRS13]

I think you've both made valid points. Lets move on

[Birds]

At the risk of sparking another debate...

Stepped up the behind neck military press tonight. Usually do 45kg x 10 x 3 and 50kg x 10 x 3. Now onto 50kg x 10 x 6. Interestingly, the last 3 sets felt easier than they did when I was doing 45kg for the first 3 sets (mind trick because I'm starting off with max weight?), despite wrecking myself more by the end of it.

The next increase will be 55kg for the last 3 sets. Don't know what I'm shooting for here...I think it would be cool to eventually do bodyweight (79kg) for reps - I'm a while off that though.

Should probably start a build thread instead of spamming this one with changes to my workout

[Birds]

Related: discovering the beauty of 1.25kg plates for incremental increases on deadlifts and squats. Only just notice the difference in weight, but it's so negligible, you can still push out the same reps. Can only imagine 750gm plates would be even better!