Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Mitcho_7]

Id do a cycle if I could get a hold of gear of reputable quality including pct etc and it didnt cost the earth.

Unfortunately thats probably not going to happen...

[jangles]

Placebos work, that's why they are called placebos.

[Kenna802]

Group buy???? Lol

[rev210]

Placebos work, that's why they are called placebos.

Not always. Be specific. If you are refering to being properly strong or massive they don't. Placebo steroids ?

If your body is weak then train it, if you want it stronger. If your mind is weak or is presenting a road block then consider training it also.

[vspecIInur]

Some assume that just because someone takes steroids you will grow by doing nothing. Must train even harder, eat a lot better, accurate amount of calories and most importantly, do the steroids properly. Too many at my gym have geared (abused the shit) for more than 3 months straight because they are too scared once they stop lol. Make sure they got some good quality HCG on standby haha.

[-FIGJAM-]

i know a guy who got on the gear. Didn't do anything right so he eventually lost all the size he gained. Anyway put on 12kg during the cycle (dont know how much actual muscle) basically said he was starving constantly, had so much energy, recovered from previous sessions so much quicker and was almost a walking boner.

[jangles]

Not always. Be specific. If you are refering to being properly strong or massive they don't. Placebo steroids ?

If your body is weak then train it, if you want it stronger. If your mind is weak or is presenting a road block then consider training it also.

It wouldn't be a placebo if it didn't work.

You said Pre trainers are a placebo. Therefore they do the job of making people think they are stronger/train harder. Therefore, no matter what the ingredient makeup is, it works in your 'they are a placebo' theory.

[rev210]

Definition of it for you as we are not on the same page.

Palcebo is a simulated or otherwise medically ineffectual treatment for a disease or other medical condition intended to deceive the recipient.

Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect.

So my present view of the average off the shelf PWO is both;

a) medically ineffectual (placebo)

b) improvements are only perceived & not actual. In the mind of the users. (placebo effect)

[Husky33]

The only thing that has a big effect in any pre workout is caffeine. If you think otherwise then you don't know pre workouts very well.

However, caffeine works. So pre workouts that have caffeine(which is 99% of them) are not a placebo, and can make you perform better, however only due to the caffeine content.

[jangles]

Definition of it for you as we are not on the same page.

Palcebo is a simulated or otherwise medically ineffectual treatment for a disease or other medical condition intended to deceive the recipient.

Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect.

So my present view of the average off the shelf PWO is both;

a) medically ineffectual (placebo)

b) improvements are only perceived & not actual. In the mind of the users. (placebo effect)

So if they do two reps on Pre workout but only one without it, it's still effective... Therefore works.

I agree, it's possibly in the mind, but if that's what makes them think and be able to do more it's working isn't it?

[rev210]

So if they do two reps on Pre workout but only one without it, it's still effective... Therefore works.

I agree, it's possibly in the mind, but if that's what makes them think and be able to do more it's working isn't it?

both efforts are likely to be piss weak based on the people I have seen who take them.

People looking for an easy way out don't try hard enough.

[jangles]

both efforts are likely to be piss weak based on the people I have seen who take them.

People looking for an easy way out don't try hard enough.

1 more rep is always 1 more rep. no matter whether you feel it's piss weak or not.

[rev210]

Actually fair enough.

My comment was a tad cranky old bastard.

Edited September 16, 2013 by rev210

[markos]

Funny to read.

We dont use pre workouts, but we use pre comps. Using anything on a regular basis dulls the effect. We only use the banned products, 1-3 x year. Jacked and Craze work best. Simply used for focus. Guys don't lift anything more than they expected too pre comp, so they get no kg added, just enables them to do whats expected. Oddly enough the same thing happened in 2011 when we had no pre comp drinks.

Make up your own minds, but I think its an utter waste for a non competing gym goer. Again, Max can get it free through sponsorship and doesn't.

Edited September 16, 2013 by markos

[jangles]

Actually fair enough.

My comment was a tad cranky old bastard.

I 100% agree with a lot of people don't put in enough to begin with.

[bozodos]

I'm inclined to agree there - to me they seem to be a crutch for not enough sleep or food. Thing is though Markos, is it preferable to not go at all if not feeling 100%, or to use caffeinated drinks etc?

[markos]

We have different kind of clients, the serious ones would die before missing, the regular ones miss consistently.

Its a choice. Only you know if your able. Our serious ones know what the session weights and reps will be beforehand, its not like they can come in and fluff around. It also sets them back one week in their prep. We run a tight schedule so you might not make that session up, which affects your total on comp day.

Someone without a comp couldnt care less if he misses a session, he'll just do it next time.

[Birds]

My problem with most regular PWO users is that in 99.9% of them, you can spot an obvious issue with either their diet, routine, or rest periods. The marketed nature of the product is geared towards people who throw money at problems to make them go away quickly. The mindset of the regular PWO user is therefore the same kind of person who:

- skips gym if their personal trainer or gym buddy can't make it

- recommends to much stronger/bigger people that they try the PWO too

- brags about the PWO giving them an extra rep on an isolation movement

- is "cutting" for a music festival and struggling to get through their regular workout

- skipped lunch that day

- got drunk the night before and had 4 hours sleep

- has about 3-5 supplements from GNC

[-FIGJAM-]

Funny to read.

We dont use pre workouts, but we use pre comps. Using anything on a regular basis dulls the effect. We only use the banned products, 1-3 x year. Jacked and Craze work best. Simply used for focus. Guys don't lift anything more than they expected too pre comp, so they get no kg added, just enables them to do whats expected. Oddly enough the same thing happened in 2011 when we had no pre comp drinks.

Make up your own minds, but I think its an utter waste for a non competing gym goer. Again, Max can get it free through sponsorship and doesn't.

I have used pre workouts in the past. 3x scoops of the old Jackd and I was still yawning in the gym and ready for bed by 9pm. The only thing I have ever used a pre workout for is a bit of a prep and some focus. Only ever noticed that on the days where I was really out of it mentally.

This one that I tried, although I don't believe the amazing results that they claim, it tasted alright and I can assure you I was focused like no tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if it was just a one off or not as I have another 2-3 samples to try.

[Trozzle]

Funnily, the PWOs that I consider to be effective actually make me yawn like crazy and feel like going to sleep between sets lol, even though there's no chance that'd happen. Strange.