M35 Stagea Vs Ve Sportwagon

[TALBO]

BS....I've driven one....the VE would eat a standard M35.......may not in the wet....but around somewhere like Eastern Creek the VE would be GONE!!!!!!......the only stag the would give it a run is a standard RS260

but for 55K on the VE!!!!....you'd have a lot of spare cash for mods on an M35!!!!

Problem #1 - 180km limiter!

Problem #2 - brakes are alot better on the VE

Problem #3 - 6 years difference in tech

Problem #4 - Our auto gearbox is shit....FULLSTOP!

Problem #5 - well the list would go on

All true points you make. How do they compare in regards to build quality....? (<------that's not really a serious question)

[DaveB]

Haha @ the build quility point!! What, for those of us who don't know, is an SS? 3.6L V6 or V8?

Edited December 15, 2009 by DaveB

[GoldZilla]

SS is the V8, all 6.0 litres of it

[Stinky Rooster]

there is no way in the world a M35 would take a 6 litre V8. I seriously doubt ANY stock turbo six that would come close, not even the Ford. Having driven a near stock 6 litre more than a few times, I can say it aint gonna happen, especially on the quarter, the initial low end torque would make it all over before it started. The V6 commo would be a bit too close to call though.

FYI - Holden and Ford use the same six speed tremec, just like they used the same 5 speed tremec, the difference between the holden and ford is all in the clutch and shifter set up.

[pixel8r]

there is no way in the world a M35 would take a 6 litre V8. I seriously doubt ANY stock turbo six that would come close, not even the Ford. Having driven a near stock 6 litre more than a few times, I can say it aint gonna happen, especially on the quarter, the initial low end torque would make it all over before it started. The V6 commo would be a bit too close to call though.

Have to disagree. The ford XR6T's have 533N-m at just 2000rpm compared to 530N-m at 4400rpm in the SS. The ford 6 turbo would be quicker as it reaches peak torque much sooner. The weight of both is pretty similar too.

Adding to that - in both cases, all of this torque at low revs means both these RWD cars are just going to sit there spinning the wheels on anything but a dry & sticky drag strip. The turbo would have an advantage in that the car is off the line and in motion before the turbo (and hence the full amount of torque) kicks in.

[TALBO]

Then there's the F6 Typhoon's that go like FARK!

As Stinky pointed out the SS (they also have traction control) will destroy stock nissan 6 cyl turbos... no contest

[Iron Chef]

Only problem is neither the XR-6T or Typhoon came as a wagon

[TALBO]

Yes there is that too

[iamhe77]

Only problem is neither the XR-6T or Typhoon came as a wagon

Or with AWD

[lilcrash]

just thought i would come back in, my boss has a typhoon sedan and it sits level with my series 2 all the way to 180 speed cut, now who wants to say that the ss wagon is faster?? i have a had a few plays on the highway against various xr6t's and all of them have the same power. i have even raced 2 vy hsv clubsprts of the lights and they only just managed to creep away until i came onto boost at which point they stopped getting away.

at the end of the day, a valid person has done road tests and came up with the nissan is simply a better car at a better price.

[Jetwreck]

just thought i would come back in, my boss has a typhoon sedan and it sits level with my series 2 all the way to 180 speed cut, now who wants to say that the ss wagon is faster?? i have a had a few plays on the highway against various xr6t's and all of them have the same power. i have even raced 2 vy hsv clubsprts of the lights and they only just managed to creep away until i came onto boost at which point they stopped getting away.

at the end of the day, a valid person has done road tests and came up with the nissan is simply a better car at a better price.

really

FFS mate....Is your car standard????

If it is go back to Mars....If it isn't read the title of the thread.

I am sure my M35 would out do a SS Wagon as well....but it's not f#$king standard as claimed!

Edited December 16, 2009 by Jetwreck

[lilcrash]

The only thing my car has over the m35 is the manual gearbox. I don't consider splitfires a modification

[TALBO]

The only thing my car has over the m35 is the manual gearbox. I don't consider splitfires a modification

I've driven a BF XR6 turbo and GT also as a passenger in a F6 Typhoon, many many Holden's ranging from CV8 Monaro's to VX/Y/Z/E Calais' SS's SSV's and even a VE HSV SVO8 Senator and I can categorically say they're all very much faster than my stock manual R33 GTSt

Maybe there's something wrong with my engine...?

[Jetwreck]

So your saying, and I presume you have a C34 4WD manual(which I have driven I might add) with minor mods(240kwATC/380nm's/1600kgs ) can keep up to a 310kwATC/565nm's/1700kg's)?

BTW you would have about 150-160kw's ATW's vs 200kw's+ for the F6 or the SS Wagon is about 180-190kw's ATW's

But I guess you were there and I wasn't......stranger things have happened!

BTW: ATC = at the crank

[pixel8r]

So your saying, and I presume you have a C34 4WD manual(which I have driven I might add) with minor mods(240kwATC/380nm's/1600kgs ) can keep up to a 310kwATC/565nm's/1700kg's)?

BTW you would have about 150-160kw's ATW's vs 200kw's+ for the F6 or the SS Wagon is about 180-190kw's ATW's

But I guess you were there and I wasn't......stranger things have happened!

BTW: ATC = at the crank

SS sportwagon is only 270kw (according to redbook).

using your figures - 240kw/1600kg = 150kw/tonne (ss sportwagon = 270kw/1797kg = 151kw/tonne) - its right on the money.

you're also confusing AWkw with RWkw. As a rough guide, removing the front driveshaft in the stagea will give you approx 20kw extra - so if you want to compare power figures at the wheels, it would be ~180rwkw for either car.

But its not that simple. If you were to compare 2 otherwise identical stageas, one with front driveshaft removed, one with it in, the AWD one would be faster. The traction benefits of AWD outweighs any drivetrain loss.

Continuing with the comparison, a turbo car will rev faster than a v8 once its on boost, meaning its into the peak of its torque curve much sooner. The v8 may have a slight advantage off the line due to more torque at low revs, but that is also offset by the increased wheelspin...the torque of the v8 is a 2-edged sword here. If you're on a drag strip then wheelspin would be minimal due to the stickiness of the road surface but on a normal road I'd suggest wheelspin would be difficult to keep under control in a v8, and non-existent in the stagea.

I'm not saying I agree that a stock manual s2 is as fast as a 6L V8 sportwagon, but the above figures suggest that you shouldn't need to modify a stagea all that much in order to match it (obviously comparing auto with auto or manual with manual)

Another point to make is that in the original review - both cars were auto. However I still disagree with the performance figures in the review. The stagea figures are about 1second too optimistic in both cases.

[Jetwreck]

* you're also confusing AWkw with RWkw- I am well and truly up to speed with the differences AWD/4WD/FWD/RWD

* As a rough guide, removing the front driveshaft in the stagea will give you approx 20kw extra - Yes - but no need to remove the shaft - found an easier way lol....you will need a new washer bottle though.

* If you were to compare 2 otherwise identical stageas, one with front driveshaft removed, one with it in, the AWD one would be faster. The traction benefits of AWD outweighs any drivetrain loss. - If you say so....I personally think you are wrong as my M35 is 2WD ATM and it is a lot stronger in the mid to high range does not take off any quicker though.

*The v8 may have a slight advantage off the line due to more torque at low revs - Turn the traction control on problem solved.

Bugger wife home - have to go and cook dinner

Edited December 16, 2009 by Jetwreck

[pixel8r]

oops...shouldn't post after long boring day at work...I'll attempt to fix up my own post (rather than edit it since that would mean Jetwreck's post wouldn't make sense)

SS sportwagon is only 270kw (according to redbook).

using your figures - 240kw/1600kg = 150kw/tonne (ss sportwagon = 270kw/1797kg = 151kw/tonne) - its right on the money.

brain fart #1 - stagea is actually 1658kg making it only ~145kw/tonne.

you're also confusing AWkw with RWkw. As a rough guide, removing the front driveshaft in the stagea will give you approx 20kw extra - so if you want to compare power figures at the wheels, it would be ~180rwkw for either car.

oops...how can they both be 180 rw if one is 240 and the other is 270? the stagea would indeed have less power at the wheels...sorry. My guess would be roughly 170-180rwkw for the stagea (if 240kw atc) and 210rwkw for the ss? not sure what drivetrain loss the ss sportwagon has...

But its not that simple. If you were to compare 2 otherwise identical stageas, one with front driveshaft removed, one with it in, the AWD one would be faster. The traction benefits of AWD outweighs any drivetrain loss.

I'm assuming the RWD one is losing some traction at takeoff...and this is from one member's experience on the 1/4 mile. In stock form a RWD stagea may not lose traction in which case RWD would be slightly quicker. I'd still take the AWD any day of the week though.

re: traction control - wouldn't this just cut power whenever the wheels slipped, meaning the car would stutter a lot before finally getting going? IMO traction control is a fantastic idea that is implemented very badly on most cars that have it...

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

just thought i would come back in, my boss has a typhoon sedan and it sits level with my series 2 all the way to 180 speed cut, now who wants to say that the ss wagon is faster?? i have a had a few plays on the highway against various xr6t's and all of them have the same power. i have even raced 2 vy hsv clubsprts of the lights and they only just managed to creep away until i came onto boost at which point they stopped getting away.

at the end of the day, a valid person has done road tests and came up with the nissan is simply a better car at a better price.

The stagea is your first foray into turbo's isnt it. I find it very difficult to beleive your story. You are saying that your near stock stagea would beat or get close to an F6. Ya wrong son.

[mxfly]

I've also test driven a couple of V8 Sportwagons back when they were first available. I was pleasantly surprised at how quick they took off the mark. I would say from those 2 drives, a Commo will be quicker than a stock M35. Not by a huge margin but nevertheless will beat a Nissan. On the other hand, put a full aftermarket 3" exhaust and get rid of the extra 2 cats on a Stag and the performance difference will be marginal.

I was seriously considering buying a Sportswagon and could even live with the build quality (or lack of should I say), but the price tag did not justify the upgrade even though the dealer gave me quite a good trade in price at that time.

Edited December 16, 2009 by mxfly

[Jetwreck]

oops...how can they both be 180 rw if one is 240 and the other is 270? the stagea would indeed have less power at the wheels...sorry. My guess would be roughly 170-180rwkw for the stagea (if 240kw atc) and 210rwkw for the ss?

Let me clear it up

Stagea: 240kw's ATC = approx 160kw's ATW

SS Wagon:270kw's ATC = approx 180 to 190kw's ATW(corrected from the 260 I first said)

F6: 310kw's ATC = 200kw's+ ATW(my guess would be 230-240kw's)

Is that not what I said in the first place?

"BTW you would have about 150-160kw's ATW's vs 200kw's+ for the F6 or the SS Wagon is about 180-190kw's ATW's"

I'm over this!

1. It was a story to sell more M35's....and most of us no it's BS....but will still like the BS

2. A near standard C34(other than an RS260) CANNOT beat a VE SS Wagon with a 6.0lt V8.....more to the point it will not keep up to an F6(T.J's C34 would!...but so it should)

3. I am Nissan bias so it was incredibly hard for me to write the first 2 points.

4. You want to argue more go to the track or drag strip and show me the times. Standard car vs Standard car.