Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Just wondering if anyone has managed to get a caged, tarmac rally or circuit / drift R32 GTS-t under 1200kg, or whether it's even possible? It would have to have all panels in place (ie no drift specials with bumpers missing etc) and 2 seats, complete dash still fitted. Not talking about exotic Cr Mo cages either but something fairly substantial.

Also not allowed to use titanium and carbon components - all panels must remain steel where fitted, and carbon not allowed

Would this be possible without costing $1M, or just a pipe dream?

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I think for a track car it would be relatively easy. You can pull out a lot of bolt on bracing and stuff you wouldn't need, trim bumper reo bars, pull out lots of shields and covers and trim, wiring, electronics, sound, interior lighting, climate control...

As an example Group A HR31 Skylines were 1115-1180kg, and off the showroom floor a HR31 GTS-X is 1450kg.

I reckon 1320 -> sub 1200 is well doable.

no.

What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

Edited by -Jimmy-
What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

even removing all of that you would be lucky to offset the weight of the cage, as a decent cage will weight more that 60kg

picked up a bhp-steel roll cage today, $5 purchase off ebay to suit a prado

it will be going into (modified) my r32 gts-t sedan track car; featuring rb26dett

guessing ~1400kg including cage less stuff taken out (seats, sound deadener, etc) perhaps 100kg

it'd be close to get down to 1200

lighter aluminium bonnet would help

take out the fuel tank and use a cell instead, perhaps?

smaller radiator overflow bottle, etc, trim back unwanted metal, etc....

Thanks for the feedback. I can't afford to sacrifice the strength of too many components, and cooling system will defenitely need to be up to scratch. I have generally found that a caged, prepped car weighs close to the factory weight of the standard vehicle (by the time you add in other stuff that I'll be needing)

Not sure whether regs will let me run the GTR bonnet yet.

What's your explanation?

I think it's possible? Without rear seats, sound deadening, maybe put on a GTR bonnet as they're aluminium, as suggested maybe give the reo bars a trim and remove the hicas, audio and a/c.

I'm going of Benny Woosters numbers, he got his down to 1280 kg, with gtr kit, and pretty resnobale amount of weight savings, but his cage isn't hugly extensive. Short of carbon, titanium, and cro-mo cage, it won't be any lighter.

you can't look at a group a car for weight numbers. Fristly they had a pretty basic cage compard to todays standards, and things like most of the suspention being custom milled from alloy, and use of lightweight materails everywhere.

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

Thats the truest words ive ever heard lol.

My 33 gtst will be heavier in "race use only" form than it was as a streeter.

By the time you add things like brake ducts (or air deflectors in my case) oil coolers, big radiator, cage, dataloggers, yadda yadda yadda. its quiet easy to go heavier...i mean a back seat weighs all of 7-8kgs, body deadener and everything else in the cabin is ~40kgs

also while im thinking of this subject...if you cut out the body bracing you will have to re-stiffen the chassis with the cage and by the sounds of what your limiting yourself to having all steel panels you want to run in a production catagory..and most of them do not allow through firewall bracing in the front or rear of the car, so the body will flop around like a wet sock.

I'm going of Benny Woosters numbers, he got his down to 1280 kg, with gtr kit, and pretty resnobale amount of weight savings, but his cage isn't hugly extensive. Short of carbon, titanium, and cro-mo cage, it won't be any lighter.

you can't look at a group a car for weight numbers. Fristly they had a pretty basic cage compard to todays standards, and things like most of the suspention being custom milled from alloy, and use of lightweight materails everywhere.

if you want to race for long stages/runs you have to add weight in to make it reliable, bigger radiator, oil cooler, bigger brakes.

That's exactly the sort of info I was after - thanks Sav Man.

Yup - long stages, high power, low speed, harsh roads - it will be copping a pounding unlike any R32 has probably experienced before

Won't be needing big brakes (in fact, I don't think I can fit anything bigger than standard under the wheels anyway). We are allowed to run the cage into the boot and engine bay, so no problems there. Definitely don't like the throught of removing stiffening braces, but will look at all parts and determine what is load bearing and what isn't (not too difficult if you have some idea of engineering principles)

Our weight limits are based on engine capacity. Stock RB20DET means I can go as light as 1180kg according to the regs, but that doesn't sound very achievable within our regs. The next category takes you up to 1260kg, which sounds about right. If I can't get the car below 1260 then I can look at boring / stroking to 2.2L if that will gain me any significant benefits (chasing fat torque curve, not useless dyno queen).

All just part of my research at this stage before I embark on the project. HAve some serious red tape to cut through first, so might not even get off the ground until that can be sorted.

Thanks for the help again.

To add to sav mans info. ive stripped down a few r32s now and the biggest weight areas are in the suspension. sub frame, cross member and associated bits. the actual shell weighs f all and thats why they require bracing ect ect. things like if the roll cage isnt tagged to the front a pillars then you will crack windscreens because of the twisting of the chassis. then the next biggest weight is the engine its self. its a heavy engine full stop and theres not much you can do about that.

body panels do save weight but its all marginal compared to the suspension components. ive tried to cut bits out of the doors and boot lid and bits here and there but its half a kilo here and there. so if you was able to get billet alloy suspension components made cheaply i think that would help greatly.

just yesterday we were talking to a bloke about 2 different shock brands (top brands) and he said one brand weighs 1/3rd of the weight of the other being a 8kg saving over all on one component. it depends at the end of the day how far you want to take it. i can see in your case its governed by rules but its just some info for you.

To add to sav mans info. ive stripped down a few r32s now and the biggest weight areas are in the suspension. sub frame, cross member and associated bits. the actual shell weighs f all and thats why they require bracing ect ect. things like if the roll cage isnt tagged to the front a pillars then you will crack windscreens because of the twisting of the chassis. then the next biggest weight is the engine its self. its a heavy engine full stop and theres not much you can do about that.

body panels do save weight but its all marginal compared to the suspension components. ive tried to cut bits out of the doors and boot lid and bits here and there but its half a kilo here and there. so if you was able to get billet alloy suspension components made cheaply i think that would help greatly.

just yesterday we were talking to a bloke about 2 different shock brands (top brands) and he said one brand weighs 1/3rd of the weight of the other being a 8kg saving over all on one component. it depends at the end of the day how far you want to take it. i can see in your case its governed by rules but its just some info for you.

Thanks DJDrift - good info again. Yeh I've just been having the same discussion on suspension components (I gather it's the same brands you mention, as one was 1`/3rd the weight of the other, and I know that the "heavy" one is definitely very highly regarded.

I know the weight of the engine is pretty hard to control - and yes it's a heavy lump. Ideally, an SR20 Silvia is probably a more sensible choice (has already been homologated, and there are already a few running) but from what I am seeing, they will become very common, and I prefer to do something different.

Will definitely be tagging the cage to the shell wherever possible. That's pretty standard in my experience.

this may help as ive done most of thing weight reduction to a r33 gtst

r33 weights 1395 standard

i dropped 95kg by

changing front seats to sparco spit fires

removed rear seats and seat belts with bolts

spear tire and jack

lighter racing wheels

half the sound dentiner

carbon boot lid

removed rear wing

thats was 95kg

i still have a/c in, to keep in leagle u need the heating element for the demister but with the the cooling gear my workshop says there is 20kgs to be lost from behind the dash and the engine bay

and i still have a standard bonnet and standard steal guards.

my chrome olly 7 point cages weights 25kgs.

i think u can get the car to 1200kg with touching everything but it wont weight 1200 with u in and a full tank of fuel.

and thats were it starts with u in it and fuel.

best of luck

I tried to get to the weighbridge today but ran out of day, will try too this week for ya.

Mine is full trim minus power steering, which you definitely DO NOT NEED on dirt. The feel is f**king insane. I have 17x9+30, with rally wheels/tyres, the steering will be lighter.

Above listed weight loss and GTR guards and bonnet(or will you smash them? :)) would have you doing well.

Thanks DJDrift - good info again. Yeh I've just been having the same discussion on suspension components (I gather it's the same brands you mention, as one was 1`/3rd the weight of the other, and I know that the "heavy" one is definitely very highly regarded.

I know the weight of the engine is pretty hard to control - and yes it's a heavy lump. Ideally, an SR20 Silvia is probably a more sensible choice (has already been homologated, and there are already a few running) but from what I am seeing, they will become very common, and I prefer to do something different.

Will definitely be tagging the cage to the shell wherever possible. That's pretty standard in my experience.

a friend of mine was looking at building an r32. (well a few have talked about it) and it was decided that a r32 with the rb25de would be a better option because in my experiences turbos on dirt rally cars mean unfair restrictions within the rules. i Navigate in a NA bluebird and there is turbo blueies as well but they have such harsh rules to comply with. (thats my opinion of it any way) i think form the talk regarding the 25de. it could make more power, has more torque ect ect. they are nearly the same car but the biggest difference is they have 4 stud not 5 like the turbo model and single pot sliding calipers. im not sure if you could change the hubs withing the rules? the blueie i run in has a hilux rear end so maybe?

Regarding the brake topic earlier. you will fit r34gtt calipers and rotors under the stock rims and they are 30mm bigger rotors. same pad same look and cheapest bang for buck brake upgrade. thats if you even need it.

EDIT: you will be running 15" rims so im not sure on clearance.

the other real draw back of the r32 is the limited suspension travel. most people say they wouldnt have enough efficient travel for rally. the back end is the same as the s13 so if they are going ok than the back end must be ok but the issue is with the front end double wish bone setup. the S chassis car is different here and they can pick up more travel there.

anywho just some more food for thought.

in my experiences turbos on dirt rally cars mean unfair restrictions within the rules.

Can you elaborate on that? 2WD PRC cars don't need to run a turbo restrictor (clearly stated in CAMS manual) - if that's what you're getting at.

I wouldn't entertain an RB25DE, as if I were going N/A route I'd be better off with a C110/C210 (or early Zed) with L28. With the knowledge base out there, a worked L28 will be better bang for bucks than RB25DE. Besides, a turbo engine makes such effortless, reliable torque, which is exactly what you want on the gravel.

Yeh, suspension travel might be an issue, but control arms are free, so might be able to custom fab longer arms for more travel - will have to have a good look at it.

I understand that there are some 15" rims that will fit over GTSt brakes, but not a hope in getting any to fit R33 or GTR brakes. That will probably be the buggest restriction. I have never needed massive brakes on a gravel car before - they are nowhere near as hard as brakes as a tarmac car, so I believe stock brakes will hold up well with decent pads and fluid (and some cooling ducts if necessary). Besides, I don't drive fast enough to need big brakes anyway :laugh:

My nav and I have lost a combined 30kg over the last couple of years, so there's a big weight saving already. The car weight is measured without a crew or helmets, and without fuel because the car can not weigh less than the minimum weight at any stage of the event.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
    • I'm not going to recommend an EBC pad. I don't like them. Just about anything else would suit me better. I've been using Intima pads for a while now.
×
×
  • Create New...