Circuit Cornering Theory

[Noddy]

I know Fatz is telling the truth, I read the same thing in a TinTin comic book!

Gotta love the 4wd megga power action. I knew there was a reason WRC cars are built, set up and driven like that WRX for a reason.

However, My experience has shown that a lap that felt way fast with a hint of sliding about wasn't actually my fastest. Disappointingly, it was the precise and slower feeling(less exciting) ones.

I do like the exciting ones much more, Harry has lots of them everywhere at Lakeside, and holds me up doing it. We turned a 59.?? sec on the first flying lap and only a 60.??sec on the 2nd with heaps of exciting moments all over the place, most exciting on the change of direction and elevation under the bridge!!!!

Edited January 22, 2010 by Noddy

[MrStabby]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Since there's a mixed response i'll try getting a little looser instead of staying dead clean and see how it goes next Saturday at Wakefiled.

[Roy]

At Wakefield, being a slow to mid speed track i would be amazed if too much slippy was quicker

[zebra]

I agree with roy, I went quite a bit quicker a wakie by braking earlier and being easier on the throttle....untill it smashed the piston rings to bits lol.

but give it a go, with the 4wd it may just work

[Duncan]

nah the tighter the track the more likely you are to get away with a bit of sliding. You can't afford to compromise mid corner speed or corner exit on a quick turn (eg turn1 at Eastern Creek), but you can do whatever the hell you like in a slow corner like turn 2@EC....as long as you are pointing the right way at the end of the corner.

Speaking of wakefield.....sliding the rear of the car through the top of the track (4-5-6) is a lovely way to get through there quickly.

and equally in a slow FWD car with lots of understeer, turn in very early and slide across the apex to maintain corner speed as best you can.

basically...its just not a simple yes or no! sliding a little can be faster but not in a long race.

[Roy]

Yeh, i dunno!?!?!?! As per my first post, i do believe that straight is generally always going to be the quickest way. If you are going sideways then you are not going forwards. But i suppose the big differentiation is are you sliding the whole car toward to exit of a corner, (like Duncan suggests in turns 4-5-6) or whether you are wagging the tale in and out of corners where you are lifting or using a fair bit of lock to control....rather then balance the thing on the throttle.

LOL, but yeh, easiest thing to do to improve your lap time is get someone to move the timing beacon up 100mtrs on your hot lap

[MrStabby]

  Roy said:

LOL, but yeh, easiest thing to do to improve your lap time is get someone to move the timing beacon up 100mtrs on your hot lap

I'll be trying iPhone+Tomtom Cradle+Harrys Lap timer so there'll be no cheating on the timing! I can also get details corner speed etc so in theory i'll be able to tell if clean or dirty is faster, but i doubt i'm anywhere near good/consistent enough make that call...

[Roy]

Well if you cant cheat then you will never be able to go quick. All the quick people cheat

[MBS206]

The last Oran Park day I did, with the instructor, I got congratulated for my "nicely controlled corner exit slide" as I came over the flip flop, basically had about 10 - 20 degrees (Referencing the steering wheel here) of opposite lock, and just drove it off the corner with a heap of throttle... His words were "That's better! THAT'S how you do it!"

[Equinox]

He probably said that because you had already messed up the corner exit but handled it well. As opposed to backing off the throttle completely which would have cost you more time in that situation?

[byebye]

You can use your iPhone as a lap timer? Sorry for off topic

[scathing]

  djr81 said:

But it is a common technique in a GTR to trail brake to during turn in. I usually do. The down side is that it can put you at a difficult spot in the mid corner as the car will want to understeer as you get off the brakes.

Couldn't you drive past that by pointing the nose in a bit further than the apex as you approach it? Aim the car so that, if it had perfect traction, it'd clip the inside of the corner before the apex.

As you come off the brakes and you understeer, the nose runs wide and clips the apex. The understeer also lets you get on the gas a little earlier/harder as the rear of the car will spend some of its time returning to neutral before oversteering. Hopefully in that period ATTESSA has reacted, and by the time your car chassis hits neutral balance the torque's been sent to the front wheels and you come out with good traction on all tyres.

[hrd-hr30]

  Equinox said:

He probably said that because you had already messed up the corner exit but handled it well. As opposed to backing off the throttle completely which would have cost you more time in that situation?

bah, watch and learn...

OK, so Brocky was a little looser than ideal in a couple of spots, but if you want to squeeze every last tenth out of it for a single fastest lap, you have to walk that line. The very start of the video is what sums it up best for me; Brocky coming onto the pit straight with the car looking nice and smooth, yet the driver sawing at the wheel - perfectly on the edge!

Edited February 1, 2010 by hrd-hr30

[nismoman]

I think if you can slide the car at the right time, at the right angle. Yes, it's quicker.

But the problem lies in being consistent repeatably. I'm no professional and it's difficult to slide the car the same way, every corner, every lap.

Keeping it straight and just on the edge of losing grip is more controllable and easier to repeat more consistently. (for me anyway)

My 2 cents.

Edited February 1, 2010 by nismoman

[warps]

Dunno if this applies as much to modern slicks (I've never driven on them) but on road tyres and the old race tyres, the tyres achieved maximum grip with a slight amount of slip (about 7% was the magical figure IIRC). In other words, a very slight amoung of slip (understeer, oversteer, 4w drift, depending on the corner) was always faster than no slip at all. Anything more than this, and the grip levels fell away quite quickly (and obviously increased wear and tyre overheating)

Even on gravel, the best drivers admit that straight is fastest. It's just so boring - that's why so many of us choose the (slower) RWD option in gravel rallying - we do it for the rock chucking goodness, not to win trophies.

[Equinox]

  hrd-hr30 said:

bah, watch and learn...

OK, so Brocky was a little looser than ideal in a couple of spots, but if you want to squeeze every last tenth out of it for a single fastest lap, you have to walk that line. The very start of the video is what sums it up best for me; Brocky coming onto the pit straight with the car looking nice and smooth, yet the driver sawing at the wheel - perfectly on the edge!

Awesome video. I see what you're saying.

[10WGM]

Yeah pretty true.

[Roy]

  hrd-hr30 said:

bah, watch and learn...

OK, so Brocky was a little looser than ideal in a couple of spots, but if you want to squeeze every last tenth out of it for a single fastest lap, you have to walk that line. The very start of the video is what sums it up best for me; Brocky coming onto the pit straight with the car looking nice and smooth, yet the driver sawing at the wheel - perfectly on the edge!

Yeh, great vids of the old Grp A cars....but i will add that Perkins had his race engine in and Brock had a practice engine in. Brock was slower to the chase then Larry so in the handling stakes Larry pasted Brock up and over the Mountain...Brock made all the time up down Conrod. So for Brock to pull back all the time on Larry, Larry running his race engine etc...he was obviously giving away a fair wack of straight ahead to the 05 car. So that tells me that the smoother line of Larry was quicker

[hrd-hr30]

practice and race engines were the same spec, the race engine would be a fresh one for the 1000km race, vs Brock's well used practice engine... I doubt that was a disadvantage for Perkins! In fact Perkins top speed on Conrod was 277.9, Brocky 277.8 so how can you suggest Brock made up all his time down Conrod???

split time at Forest Elbow was a 1:30 for Brock and they originally said 30.9 for Perkins, but there was some confusion over it and they changed their minds to a 30 as well, probably because they were so convinced his smoother lap was going to be faster as they had been saying all the way through it. Maybe they just didn't want to be proven wrong on national television...

[Marlin]

I watch that lap at least once a week, immense piece of driving!