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E85 Fuel Setup

huddy

By huddy,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted
Can anyone tell me what power levels a single 044 pump can handle. Just after some reliable info and it seems as though you guys are the ones that can help me.

Im in the process of building a fuel system for my rb26. Current setup is single in tank 044. Fuel is 98RON only.

Im using dash 5's with the usual fruit, but boost is only standard at the moment on 13.5psi making 322rwkw

Im about to wind the boost up next to around 20-22 psi if theres no detonation.

My questions are:

Will my current intank 044 be ok to use as the lift pump?

Will an additional single 044 mounted externaly support 380-400rwkw (If thats what i should expect the car to make with 20-22psi?)

Will a 2 litre surge tank be ok?

What size fuel lines, any additional information i should know?

Sorry to steal this thread so to speak but i have alot of the same questions as stated here and cant find the answers by searching.

Any info is much appreciated

Mate people use a simple Tomei/Nismo intank pump for 380rwkw circuit cars with -5's, semi slicks and so on... All in the factory fuel tank, factory fuel lines, factory FPR and so on.

None of them have a problem, and there are countless cars achieving this... Don't try to reinvent the wheel with this dual pump/surge tank business - you won't need it.

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Mark-32 Community Regular

Mark-32

Posted
Posted
Mate people use a simple Tomei/Nismo intank pump for 380rwkw circuit cars with -5's, semi slicks and so on... All in the factory fuel tank, factory fuel lines, factory FPR and so on.

None of them have a problem, and there are countless cars achieving this... Don't try to reinvent the wheel with this dual pump/surge tank business - you won't need it.

Fair enough mate but my car is a drift car and this is what my tuner/engine builder recommends I do.

Im not doubting you know what your talking about, but I have just spent close to 50 grand on this whole engine conversion, parts and tuning.

The fact that I now want to wind up the boost brings me to the point where to be safe i have to fit external pumps and surge tank. This is not an area i know alot about but i do know I really dont want to bin an engine due to fuel surge and leaning out.

Im not trying to reinvent the wheel, but I'am inclined to follow my tuners advise who has had over 30 years experience in the industry.

XRATED Veteran

XRATED

Posted
Posted
Ok so i spoke to my tuner and he said to run 2 external 044 pumps with the surge tank and use a carter 15psi low pressure pump as my lift pump.

Can you tell me how to plumb and wire the two pumps up, and also in regards to filters and one way valves, and will a 2 litre surge tank be big enough?

Also wheres the best place to purchase the carter lift pump and the assosiated filters and one way valves to complete the setup?

A 15 psi carter pump is right on the money... it's a better choise than a high pressure efi pump, but will be a little more difficult to fitt, that's why I suggested a bosch pump... with a bosch pump, you can re-use the modified fuel pump cradle from the in tank 044...

2lt should be fine, just make shure it's relativly skinny and tall- with the right size threaded fittings.

Have a search around the forum, i'm shure there are plenty of examples for plumbing and wiring... if not pm me and I'll sketch somthing up for you.

EFI hardware will have everything you need... Good prices and solid advice.

Fair enough mate but my car is a drift car and this is what my tuner/engine builder recommends I do.

Im not doubting you know what your talking about, but I have just spent close to 50 grand on this whole engine conversion, parts and tuning.

The fact that I now want to wind up the boost brings me to the point where to be safe i have to fit external pumps and surge tank. This is not an area i know alot about but i do know I really dont want to bin an engine due to fuel surge and leaning out.

Im not trying to reinvent the wheel, but I'am inclined to follow my tuners advise who has had over 30 years experience in the industry.

At the end of the day you have to trust in what your tuner/builder tells you... If he says two pumps and a surge tank, then thats what you invest in.

Personally I would ask your tuner if one larger pump will suffice with a surge tank... I don't think he would have an issue with that, as long as the one pump is rated the same as two 044's... Again, this is just my preffrence (I've given my reasons in this thread allready). See what he says. It also comes down to cost too... two 044's will probably be cheaper.

Cheers

Justin

Nee-san Grand Master

Nee-san

Posted
Posted
Mate people use a simple Tomei/Nismo intank pump for 380rwkw circuit cars with -5's, semi slicks and so on... All in the factory fuel tank, factory fuel lines, factory FPR and so on.

None of them have a problem, and there are countless cars achieving this... Don't try to reinvent the wheel with this dual pump/surge tank business - you won't need it.

My Car will surge with anything under a quarter of a tank in it, even in a straight line.... Does this mean it has been mounted incorrectly (the pump) ?

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted
My Car will surge with anything under a quarter of a tank in it, even in a straight line.... Does this mean it has been mounted incorrectly (the pump) ?

Perhaps.

Although i wouldn't be running around with a 1/4 empty tank @ the track :)

One assumes you fill it up, just like the oil & water

Mark-32 Community Regular

Mark-32

Posted
Posted
^ Ye surge tank fair enough - im still not concinved as to the need for a twin setup when single pumps have been proven to flow the required amounts time over.

My tuner suggested I hook the second externall 044 up so it will only come on when I flick the power switch for the mac valve to turn it onto high boost.

He said standard fuel lines will be fine also.

That way the second pump is not running flat out all the time heating up the fuel.

Mark-32 Community Regular

Mark-32

Posted
Posted
A 15 psi carter pump is right on the money... it's a better choise than a high pressure efi pump, but will be a little more difficult to fitt, that's why I suggested a bosch pump... with a bosch pump, you can re-use the modified fuel pump cradle from the in tank 044...

2lt should be fine, just make shure it's relativly skinny and tall- with the right size threaded fittings.

Have a search around the forum, i'm shure there are plenty of examples for plumbing and wiring... if not pm me and I'll sketch somthing up for you.

EFI hardware will have everything you need... Good prices and solid advice.

At the end of the day you have to trust in what your tuner/builder tells you... If he says two pumps and a surge tank, then thats what you invest in.

Personally I would ask your tuner if one larger pump will suffice with a surge tank... I don't think he would have an issue with that, as long as the one pump is rated the same as two 044's... Again, this is just my preffrence (I've given my reasons in this thread allready). See what he says. It also comes down to cost too... two 044's will probably be cheaper.

Cheers

Justin

So what bosch in tank pump would be easier to fit that is low pressure do you think?

Nee-san Grand Master

Nee-san

Posted
Posted
Perhaps.

Although i wouldn't be running around with a 1/4 empty tank @ the track :D

One assumes you fill it up, just like the oil & water

Sorry, I didnt mean the track, this happens on the street, e.g. 3rd gear flatten throttle revs climb,just starts to feel like your about to get whiplash then BAM and the dirt is gone :) surge and going nowhere.

TiTAN Grand Master

TiTAN

Posted
Posted

i installed a 044 in my tank and can boot it with less than 1/4 and not get any surge, get them to check that the pump is mounted as low as possible in the tank. does it have issues driving around normally with low fuel? also keep in mind some fuel guages are a bit dodgy in the way they read the fuel level, 1/4 on one isnt always the same on another.

Nee-san Grand Master

Nee-san

Posted
Posted
i installed a 044 in my tank and can boot it with less than 1/4 and not get any surge, get them to check that the pump is mounted as low as possible in the tank. does it have issues driving around normally with low fuel? also keep in mind some fuel guages are a bit dodgy in the way they read the fuel level, 1/4 on one isnt always the same on another.

Yeah, i can always tell if its down at the lower levels that its about to surge given the type of corner im about to take, not usually at slower speeds though.

XRATED Veteran

XRATED

Posted
Posted (edited)
My tuner suggested I hook the second externall 044 up so it will only come on when I flick the power switch for the mac valve to turn it onto high boost.

He said standard fuel lines will be fine also.

That way the second pump is not running flat out all the time heating up the fuel.

It's a good way to do it... The stock lines are totally fine for your power levels and 98 with twin pumps.

So what bosch in tank pump would be easier to fit that is low pressure do you think?

There are no low pressure/high volume bosch pumps in the same frame I can think of... The next best thing will be a lower rated bosch pump in the same frame size. Or just retro fitt the carter pump.

My setup. Nothing special :)

Image0011.jpg

wasnt finished in the pic but thats the only pic I have..

Nice one Rob, what filters are they?

After all that, I am thinking of modifying the stock fuel tank to suit, probably making the bottom of it flat too so I can add a diffusor.

If it's a GTR tank, they're plastic... would be a little difficult. otherwise check this out:

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/ste...ealth-sump-kit/

Awsome!

Edited by XRATED
s2d4 Rising Star

s2d4

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ahhh, that aeromotive set up idea is awesome x2!

I was thinking maybe an alu fab or fibreglass.. pbly leaning more towards alu though.

If it's a GTR tank, they're plastic... would be a little difficult. otherwise check this out:

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/ste...ealth-sump-kit/

Awsome!

Edited by s2d4

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